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The Trinity
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wretch,
Your antinomianism isn’t bothering anyone but yourself. While it is true, we are sad for your ignorance, at least we have hope for you because you are ignorant. Chris knows better. He claims to be a leader of souls. He has a lot more to face.
OK Wretch,
Enough playing. I hope the teasing didn’t upset you. I’m just feeling my oats!
So, on a more serious note, why don’t you lay out your points of disagreement with the HR movement, of which I don’t necessarily claim to be a part of. (I am a Netzarim)
But, we can have some serious discussions on all these things that bother you. I will be totally honest with you and I expect the same from you. One rule! Everything in context! No proof text!
Can you do that?
Why cast pearls among swine? There is no convincing of you and there is no convincing of me. There is no discussion here. As soon as I start talking theology there will be a number of people within the Hebrew Roots Movement that will all disagree and say I am a part of the Catholic lie. You call me ignorant without even knowing me, and now you want a discussion. You are out of your mind. It isn’t out of fear that I don’t talk about this. In fact I have no fear from someone who gets brave behind a keyboard.
Wretch,
I forgive you for calling me swine.
Now, when I say you are ignorant, I am not insulting you. I am saying you lack knowledge on the subject that you are attacking. You said, “All Hebrew Roots represent a break from the truth.” That statement proves that you have very little knowledge about Hebrew Roots, or for that fact, the Truth! That is where your ignorance lies. I would be happy to teach you so that your ignorance will be removed.
But, if all you wish to do is argue, it is as you said, “there is no convincing of you.” So, from your own mouth you prove what I and others have been saying. You are only here to cause division and to make trouble. That makes you an ally of adversary. That is something that YHVH hates! Proverbs 6:16-19, “Six things YHVH hates; Seven are an abomination to Him: A haughty bearing, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A mind that hatches evil plots, Feet quick to run to evil, A false witness testifying lies, And one who incites brothers to quarrel.”
Also in Proverbs we read that “For those who do not keep Torah, even their prayers are an abomination.”
I have no motive beyond bringing you to the Truth. I know you believe you have it, as I did, but you are wrong. Someday you will come to see that. I hope it is not when you are standing before Him who you blaspheme so freely by denying His Word!
David,
please forgive me. I do not want to sound like i’m correcting you since you are an elder to me, but I think the word “Netzarim” in Hebrew is plural but “Netzari” is the singular form.
I think you meant to say “I am a Netzari”
However, WE are Netzarim
Or, in Ivrit (Hebrew) we would say “Anachnu Netzarim ve Ok’veem Yahshua HaMashiyach ve Ok’veem ha-Torah”
[We are Netzarim and we follow Yahshua the Messiah and we follow the Torah]
Just practicing my Hebrew. =) Trying really hard to learn it. It’s my passion. I can’t explain the sudden fire in my heart for learning this language. It’s easier for me than spanish haha
Woot!
Netzari,
You are correct brother. It was a typo. I caught it afterward but since we have the new format, I don’t know how to edit my errors.
Thank you for your attention to it. Never feel bad about correcting error regardless of age.
Wrong, Hebrew Roots DOES NOT represent a break from the truth though ALL Hebrew Roots folks do at times break from the truth, violate the law or sin. That makes both parties the same in Abba’s eyes from His perspective. All have sinned (violated the law) and fallen short of the glory of God.
The difference is…your camp is saying that the thing broken from (the law) was erased so as to continue living the way you want.
Everyone will follow the law to one destination or another…and he will be here soon. The Law is good, holy and just (Romans7:12). The Law is Spiritual (Romans 7:14). The Law IS truth (Psalms 119:142). I could go on but I already have a hundred times.
Seems to me like you would want that which is good, holy, just, spiritual and truth IN YOU and as much of it as possible. Not all do.
My Camp? Wow, yeah we tell people to live how they want to. I am sure there are ones out there like that, but once again this is nothing, but a fallacious generalization. Seems like I would want that which is good, holy, just, spiritual truth in me. You saying that I don’t have it? Hmmmmm
Wretch,
you said earlier, “Anytime you say everyone, you are making a generalization about people. It would be like me saying that all Hebrew Roots Believers are all legalistic, which would be a generalizations.â€
and now you just said,
“All Hebrew Roots represents a break from the truth…â€
and again to Scot,
“but once again this is nothing, but a fallacious generalization.”
Do not your comments above contradict your comment to David and Scot concerning “generalizations�
again, SOME Hebrew Roots veer from the truth like ALL religious systems. Not ALL Hebrew Roots groups are on the same page conerning Scripture.
Your comments above to Scot and David where generalizations friend. =/
Wretch,
what i’m saying is that you are accusing David and Scot of generalizing when you are generalizing by assuming all Hebrew Roots people break from the truth.
apparently you don’t understand sarcasm. Game over for you.
Wretch,
I will take it upon myself to answer that question. I know Scot will not mind.
You ask, “You saying that I don’t have it?
The answer is NO! Scot, nor I, nor any one of us are NOT saying that. IT is YOU who are saying that! When you reject Torah as the Will of Eloheim, you are saying that you do not have “That” in you. How can you possess it and utterly reject it? There is only one way I know. You are “ignorant” (there’s that word again) of just how much Torah there is already in you. Do you murder? Do you commit adultry? (I mean the physical kind. All who follow false doctrine commits spiritual adultry) I believe that’s enough to make my point. You should be able to figure it out from there.
We need to get back to the Trinity dialogue guys…
I feel like i’m floating in mid air with neither ground or flight concerning the “trinity”. Personally, i’m convinced (unless someone can logically explain to me this view) that there is no “trinity”. The other part of the puzzle now is learning what the Scripture really says concerning this topic lol.. it’s a toughy..
What I got so far from studying is this:
-YHWH IS THE FATHER
-YHWH’s WORD is divine and eternal.
-the WORD was perfectly filled in Yahshua and because of His sinlessness He is different from us humanly speaking.
-Yahshua is under the Father according to 1Cor.
-Yahshua cannot be under the Father at the same time BE the Father…
-Yahshua will give up the Kingdom to the FATHER.
-Yahshua is connected to YHWH through the Holy Spirit, the same way we can be connected to Him.
I think most of the confusion stems from the concept that the Holy Spirit didn’t dwell in man but only came upon man in the “Old Testament” but then did so in the “New Testament”.
The Scriptures prove the Holy Spirit being IN and UPON people in the Tanakh as well as in the Brit’ Chadashah. (“NT”)
I’m still awaiting to see more discussion on this matter.
Can you logically explain that there is no trinity? then I will believe you.
Wretch,
Are we now required to prove His Word by logic, so called?”
Isn’t the Word of Eloheim good enough for you?
How about, “Hear O Isra’el, YHVH Eloheim, YHVH echad.”
Can you explain from the Word of Eloheim, (not logic or constantinian doctrine) how “echad” can be three separate persons?
Good luck! Many have tried and all have failed.
Wretch,
that’s what we have all been trying to do. Yes, from what we have learned in Scripture, we CAN express the flaw of Trinity. Simple question, how can a son be a father and a son at the same time when still in his own father’s household UNDER his father’s rule and authority?
Typical dreamy confusion…put forward a negative\scriptural deficit and ask someone to argue a negative…illogical…
Is it a negative? Many in “my camp” would say that it is a scriptural surplus. What say you?
If it is a surplus, surely there would be a verse that supports it. There are none, two were added so that it would appear as such. Sad thing is…that is well known now and even admitted by the folks that did it.
Go ahead, stand on the tree stump and say it was never there. One more repeat of what you have been shown is false and you will be removed.
Your participation here is combative and terribly ill-informed. Enough.
What were the two verses added into Scripture again guys? I forget… I’ve been searching for evidence on that fact but haven’t had the time to dive deep into it…YET. =)
Another clue America is the beast .Chronological order After Obama came in rev13;1 the beast that rises from the grains of sand in the sea and is as a leopard.which means black and white spotted.or mixed.His grandmother was white.rev 13;3 And I saw one of his heads wounded to death and his deadly wound healed.and all the world wondered after the beast.America just had an American congresswoman that was shot in the head and doctors said it was a miracle she lived and she is a God fearin woman and she is congresswoman gifford.Which Congress has more power than the president accept for the control of military.So congress is a head above the president but both still represent the beast.Then the 4th beast comes and can call fire down from heaven and has the power of the first beast before him rev 13;13,14 says as if it were some miracle.and they will say who can make war with the beast.Now the military showed on national tv of how the new satelite imagry weapons work.They showed buildigs being blown up from satelit imagry first it showed the buildings with an x marks the spot then America pushes a button and boom the satelite shows the building blowing up.All americans watched this example because the military aired it on national tv
So that is what we do, remove people that we don’t like. I say remove me then, buster. There are more and more like me out there.
Wretch, you shouldn’t talk like that. Nobody is forcing you to come on this blog. If you enjoy our conversation, you have to show respect. Removing people from posting is the last measure or step taken by the administration to keep a respectful and logical blogging. “There are more and more like me out there”…we know that, because we have been there. For the bible is telling us that the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction (no laws, you can sin how much you want, Torah is obsolete. That is what you want ? ) .
Just read Matthew 7 : 13-14
“There are more and more like me out there”
lol…sorry, but that reminds me of what villins say in movies before they are defeated… “If you kill me, more like me will arise!” hehehe
Unless your obi-wan kenobi,
“Strike me down, and I will be more powerful than you will ever imagine”
Lol.. sorry guys. I couldn’t help it.
@Netzari
i could not help it to say that i really love/like that comment you just made it ,made me laugh thanks Brother thats awesome i like your humour we need more people like you in this world or we will go all mad. may Yahweh bless you and keep you
Another Clue America is the beast.Chronological order after Obama came which is the ceast out of the grains of the sands of the sea of hawaii 13:3 and I saw one of his heads wounded to death and his deadly wound healed.and all the world wondered after the beast.America just had an American congresswoman that was shot in the head and doctors said it was a miracle she live and she is a God fearin woman.Now congress is over the president so this woman was over Obamas head and she is well and live and she is congresswoman Gifford.Then the 4th beast comes and can call fire down from heaven.and has the power of the first beast before him rev 13;13 and 14 says as if it were some miracle.America has this technology called star wars they dont even need plane they can blow up anytihg and see anybody thru satilite imagry
And her husband is a famous astronaut
I say this with as much respect as I can, but I think you need professional help. Or you need to take a long break from studying prophecy.
Just like prophsy says u WILL NOT BELIEVE
@joseph
i absoulatly agree with you and could not have said it better myself.
only for a season…
Why did Joseph keep Benjamin and send his other brothers back?
Cause He knew his dad had already blamed them for the loss of one of his most favrit by his favrit wife now they manged to lose his other favrt son by his favrt wife.Joseph knew the wrath from the Father that they would have to face.
so if you know now who the beast is you would know that the two witnesses and the Bible says witnesses and not people or prophets tou would know that the prophesy has been fullfilled funny the way the Lord uses the simple tings to confound the wise and all of you are just too wise now arent you
@scotty-taylor A lot of what follows I think you know already, but bears repeating as Peter “reminds” – 2 Pet 3, Jude 1:5 in the Word.
“Powerful” nations and the people that make them up see and interpret things from that point of veiw and reference. Meaning, “we are the center of the world and most important because we are the most powerful and influential . . . ” etc. All of the historically “powerful” nations of the past – Egypt, Babylon, Medes/Perians, Greece, Rome have been “it” they were the “civilized” culture and that everything was filtered through that mindset and their national ”pride”.
You can see the same attitude in mainstream Christianity with mindsets of replacement theology and Grecco/Roman (pagan) practices and theology that it holds to. It doesn’t see YHWH’s plan and purposes in respects ot Israel – the people, land and kingdom. They strip Yeshua from His People, the culture, the context (historical and textural) and “westernize” Him along with the pagan traditions and He becomes Jesus (no longer Hebrew). It is no longer Hebrew. Hebrew, meaning that which YHWH created, His culture, His Ways, – not man made culture and religion.
When these two mindsets – the one of inflated “national pride” and the one of stripping the context of what/and why of YHWH’s “Hebrew” (His ways) plan and purpose you get your point of view. A viewpoint and mindset that America is the focus of prophecy and is center stage of YHWH’s covenant plan.
YHWH’s covenant was made with Abraham, the first Hebrew. YHWH choose Abraham to work HIS covenant plan through and He choose a PLACE – Israel to place His Name, His Throne. The verses below, most of which are the prophecies, tell of this. YHWH’s covenant plan centers around the place – Israel, His people – Israel (covenant believers from “whomsoever ever will come” to Him through Yeshua and obey His Torah), and and His kingdom – Israel.
It has never been replaced. Your interpretation of prophecy replaces Israel – the land, people, kingdom – with America, it’s land, people and “kingdom” (government). Your interpretation says that YHWH’s focus is no longer His promise to Abraham but is now to America and it’s people and the Christian church (reference to your comment of many Jesus followers in America) And I am NOT saying that NO ONE in mainstream Christianity is not one of His People, YHWH makes that judgment. You are trying to force YHWH’s covenant with Abraham to fit your American centric view.
YHWH tells us who the “players” (prophetic peoples, nations in relationship to Israel) in His plan are. He starts by telling us in Genesis who they are and they are the same all the way through their generations and all the way through Rev. You can trace the “related” people and their generations quite easily. He is Israel centric, everything revolves around it. His throne is not in America or Rome, nor has it been moved there. His covenant plan and promises are to/about Israel.
He makes the nations play their part in His covenant plan and as above, the parts have been assigned in the beginning. He states in His prophecies very clearly and specifically about people and places. When He is specific, it is for a specific reason and He is telling us specifically who and where. He prophesied the very specific empires before they were empires. If America was the focus of prophecy He would have been just as specific in naming it. He wasn’t. It isn’t where He placed His Name, His Throne/Temple, His land. It isn’t the land He promised His People, it isn’t the place Yeshua will set His feet when He returns. All of those places are, Israel. Everyone will go up Jerusalem, not America.
America has it’s place in history and YHWH’s plan as one of the many nations, just not the one you are trying to force it to be. It is just one of the nations in YHWH’s Hand. As powerful as you think it is, it is nothing and can come to and end just like the others. I am an American, but I know this is not my home.
The Word of YHWH is so often interpreted through current eyes, the understanding, viewpoints, opinions, values, beliefs of the current culture of the time. Instead of the correct way of interpretation of the cultural context of the time it was given/written. That is how replacement theology started and is perpetuated.
Words and their meanings change over time in different cultures. It isn’t what it means to us today, it is what did/does it mean when YHWH gave it? What were the people who wrote it mean by a certain phrase or words, that may have a totally opposite meaning today? What “food” was in Yeshua’s time was understood to mean that which was clean. Anything else was not “food”. Today food is anything that you eat and is so exemplified by today’s society in shows such as “Bizzare Foods”. How did the understanding of what “food” is get lost? Though the passage of time, the separation of the Body from it’s Source/root, rebellion, lost knowledge of what it was. Without the correct understanding of context you can get way off in your interpretation.
It only took reading His Word front to back a few times to see that what we were taught in “church” wasn’t correct and after reading it through several more years that we saw/see His plan as HE sees it – Israel. Do we know it all, NO!! Were we off track at one time (still are at times), YES!! Only keeping our focus on HIM can we stay on the narrow path of His Truth.
I like what Bill Cloud said as a warning about prophetic interpretation. That we can get so focused on seeing it a certain way, waiting and wanting it to happen that way that we can miss what He is DOING. Our focus can be so off that we will miss Him DOING IT! You can see that happening in the Word to many, I do not want it to happen to me, I do not want to be a foolish virgin and miss the Bridegroom. I am a watchman (woman) and will watch and see and await His coming. I will watch for the signs and seek Him and serve Him.
I do not take anyone’s interpretation as absolute truth. I do know that those that diligently seek Him and listen to the Ruach HaChodesh will find Him as He says in His Word. Any group of believers who follow Torah and diligently seek Him will be on the same page for the most part. He will correct error in anyone who wants to know the Truth, His Truth.
We never stop learning it unless we choose to. In a group like this we can discuss with the Word as our Source for Truth. He will make it clear as to our level of understanding and learning. So we must always be open for correction, always rightly divide the Word, seek His Ways not ours. Knowledge puffs up, pride has no place, I have to continually remember that one.
I believe those here honestly wish to seek HIS Truth, even if we sometimes take a side trip into bloated knowledge and pride. I have seen several be quick to ask forgiveness and be given it, a sure sign of humbleness and fruit of the spirit. Let’s all seek Him where He may be found and be that light that shows Yeshua’s love and grace to the world, and not shine it on ourselves.
Scripture references:
1 Kings 5:5
I intend, therefore, to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God, as the LORD told my father David, when he said, ‘Your son whom I will put on the throne in your place will build the temple for my Name.’
• Nehemiah 1:9 NIV
but if you return to me and obey my commands, then even if your exiled people are at the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for my Name.’
• Ezekiel 43:7 NIV
He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.
• Isaiah 11:9 NIV
They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.
• Isaiah 56:7 NIV
these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
• Isaiah 57:13 NIV
When you cry out for help, let your collection [of idols] save you! The wind will carry all of them off, a mere breath will blow them away. But the man who makes me his refuge will inherit the land and possess my holy mountain.”
• Isaiah 65:11 NIV
“But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny,
• Isaiah 65:25 NIV
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD
• Isaiah 66:20 NIV
And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD–on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels,” says the LORD. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels
• Ezekiel 20:40 NIV
For on my holy mountain, the high mountain of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD, there in the land the entire house of Israel will serve me, and there I will accept them. There I will require your offerings and your choice gifts, along with all your holy sacrifices.
@ Sonya Isaiah 49;6 and he said,It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,and to restore the preserved of Israel;I will also give the a light to the gentiles,that thoy mayest be my salvation to the end of the earth
What gentile nation protcts the reserved of Israel?
Jeremiah 7;25 Since the days youre fathers came fourth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have sent unto you all my servants the prophets,daily rising up early and sending them
Now understand this.Another clue America is the beast.Chronological order after Obama came which is an anti christ which is the beast out if the grains of sand of the sea and is as a leopard or black and white spotted or “mixed”(his grandmother was white) rev 13;3 and I saw one of his heads wounded to death and his deadly wound healed.Now one of Obamas heads was just shot in the head and lived as if it were some miracle but congresswoman Gifford is a Godfearin woman and she lived and all the world wondered after the beast.The whole world saw this and was updated everyday on her condition.and we all know that congress in America is head over the president with exeption to the military.The president can go to war and utilize the military without the approval of congress but the president cant get any bills passed unless they first are approved by congress so this is a head of Obama and America.then the 4th beast come and can call fire down from heaven and has the power of the first beast before him.REV 13;13and14 says as if it were some miracle.And America has shown this on national tv they can blow up anyone in the world and see it happen and see that they have hit their targets thru sattellite imagry.They can even see people runnin out of the area droppin and rollin on fire and then they push the button again so that all of theur primary targets are destroyed”called the star wars program”
scotty,
That is about the craziest thing I have ever read on this blog! satan has blinded your eyes and is filling your head with total nonsense. He is using you as a false teacher to try and turn peoples eyes away from the truth. Gifford in not one of Obama’s heads! He only has one and I don’t dare say where it is.
You need to try the spirits you claim are leading you in this error.
David I meant that by wat I see like I said forgive me for Im not good with words at all didnt really mean my prophesies they are all Gods And like I said Im just tryin to get this out thyere the best I can but it seens that the adversary is messin with what i mean and how i word it and im sorry for that Im just tryi9n my best
Scotty, brother – the adversary is messing with more than your spelling and how you word things. PLEASE SEEK YAHUWAH. We are brothers and sisters who love you – and are begging you to TURN TO HIM to test all these things you are proclaiming. The adversary is subtle, clever, crafty and cunning and comes as an angel of light when he is out to deceive, kill, steal and destroy. This is serious — not a game. Forgive me if my words sounds harsh, but OTHER people read this blog and I fear some of Abba’s young lambs will be misled into following a man’s words, instead of seeking Him on their faces as WE ALL SHOULD BE DOING SO WE ARE NOT LED ASTRAY.
Scotty-Taylor
i look at israel like this so here gos’
the whole world is israel and in israel there are 196 states but the capital is the State of Yisra’el that small stripe of land in the middle east but the heart of that capital is Yerushalayim so the world is Yisra’el so we are as David said grafted into and are the part of the commonwealth of Yisra’el and we will be brought back into the capital state when Messiah Returns.
yeshuamessiah,
The whole world is NOT Israel.
Israel are those among the nations who “keep the commandments of Eloheim and have the testimony of Yeshua HaMashiach.” “Those who have washed their garments and made them white in the Blood of the Lamb.”
Only those are grafted into the Olive Tree, Israel.
I believe you know this already but your comment was unclear.
scotty,
Sonya is correct. You would do well to take heed to what she is saying.
Your question, “What gentile nation protcts the reserved of Israel? Which you are implying that America is the protector of Israel, Shows just how wrong you are!
You are obviously thinking of Israel as that little piece of land in the Middle East. That is NOT Israel, that is the LAND given to Israel!
Israel is a people. They are the ones in Covenant with YHVH/Yeshua! They are the “grafted in” of Romans 11. They are found throughout the world. They will someday be returned to that Land but they are Israel, not the land.
scotty, I admire your zeal for learning but you are being led down the wrong path by the adversary. I pray your eyes will soon be opened.
@David
yes i did know that already but sorry for not explaining it properly i have always struggled on explaining things that has always being my downfall so sorry David but i’m working on it just needs a little bit of practice. lols. but thank you for clarifying it for me.
@David
and shalom Elder Brother with lots of love and respect.
Amein Sister Sonya!
scotty-taylor is definitely seeing things from an American-centric view and must learn to test all things and test the spirits behind what he thinks is correct interpretation. Hard words, but true.
Scotty – brother, test the spirits. Humble yourself before Yahuwah and test it all through Him. I posted the other day -but you took it as a cautionary rebuke toward brethren other than yourself. It was meant for you. Because I love my Father and felt moved to share that with you. Go re-read that post and test it through Him to see if I spoke rightly to you or not. I encourage you – I beg you – exhort you to test what you are preaching here, through Him. I already know what you hold to is not of my Father and I fear for you. Please ask Him. Shalom.
If you’re still around Wretch, the scriptural evidence you are looking for, which is quite logical, is related to what “spirit” is. All living things, by definition, must have a spirit–because spirit (breath in humans) is what imparts life. Even the Father, a spirit being with a spirit body, must have a spirit within Him that accounts for His living existence. God IS spirit. But…and this is the clincher, Wretch…if the Father, who is holy, has a spirit, then obviously His spirit must be holy spirit–or rather, HOLY SPIRIT. If the Father’s spirit is Holy Spirit, it becomes utterly redundant, unnecessary, and false to insist that there is a third being who is called the Holy Spirit.
This leads us to conclude what ought to be obvious to all…the Holy Spirit is nothing less (and also nothing more) than THE FATHER’S OWN SPIRIT.
Threre’s also a great deal more on this subject that I taught to a couple of different congregations the past Atonement dealing with the Oneness of YHWH. Once the full understanding of just how One YHWH is becomes clear, attempts to personify the Holy Spirit as a third hypostasis (person) can readily be seen as silly and superfluous.
A light bulb just went on for the first time…
“Holy Spirit”…. that just means SET APART Spirit… Torah (The WORD) is Set apart…so…………if that SET APART spirit is placed in US, that makes US set apart too! WOW! And that SAME spirit is what was perfectly IN Yahshua the MAN…. WOW…. Oh my goodness.. I almost got it!
Set Apart Spirit = Abba because Abba IS Spirit and Abba is SET APART which means that the Spirit which is SET APART is none other than Abba.
So the Set Apart Spirit could be considered the heart of Abba? Relationship personified? If Spirit = Relationship (love of Abba which connects Him and Yahshua together) that means that through Yashua, that same relationship/Spirit connects US to Abba…. hmmm… Almost there guys… keep the posts coming. I need more!
That almost solves the Holy Spirit part for me. Now, for the concept of Yahshua….was He just a man FILLED with the Set Apart Spirit of Abba? Was he a “God-man”? Was He a man born sinless (second adam) in whom that Set Apart Spirit was IN?
I believe that the same Spirit in Yahshua was in the Prophets of old. The only difference between the Prophets and Yahshua was that Yahshua was sinless which qualifies Him to be our Messiah. Am I getting this right? I have much to unlearn still lol
Yes, you are right…and on that same note…ALL those who do not have the set apart\holy spirit will eventually try to be EQUAL having not been SET APART as a son that follows his lead.
Yes, equal as in trying to be gods apart from relationship. Just like what the people are doing in the technocalypse post.
http://profoundprophecy.com/2010/12/technocalypse-transhumanism-and-singularity/comment-page-1/#comment-44257
Guys,
I’m having a hard time with this verse because it makes it seem like the Holy Spirit is another entity…
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
If the Holy Spirit is the Father’s own spirit (which I believe it is) then why does Yahshua say that this Holy Spirit does not speak of HIMSELF but shall testify of Yahshua??? So the Holy Spirit has His Own will and is another “person”? It sounds that way in John 16:13.
Any ideas guys?
Good question, brother! The pronouns make it hard for me to understand exactly what’s being said. ‘He’ appears so many times in those few verses!
Yeah this is one of those verses that I always hear from people when they wanna talk trinity. Dont know if this will help much but I’ve personally never really felt affected by those kinds of passages simply because yeah the Holy Spirit is reffered to as “He” but wisdom is also referred to as “she.” We wouldnt go saying that Wisdom is an actual Lady…
Exactly, I was gonna say the same thing… there are NUMEROUS examples in scripture where abstract things or even objects are personified, like “wisdom” and others… that does NOT make them actual “persons”. But, then there are people who literally believe wisdom is a person, YHVH has a person in the place of His right arm, etc. (the person of Yeshua)…
ps. spirit is actually a “she” (feminine) in Hebrew (breath/spirit is feminine, like in many others languages, but has ZERO to do with the sex of a supposed person) like “wisdom”…lol… people (even some hebrew roots folks) who follow this erroneous kind of thinking, actually believe that God had kids with His wife the holy spirit which is not far from the pagan religions of the world that teach about mother earth, queen of heaven… They interpret “God made them after the image of God, male and female” (paraphrase) as meaning that God is also male and female (holy spirit) and they had a son Jesus (which they call the 3rd person of the trinity)… crazy
Hi all. In Monte Judah’s weekly Torah teaching this week (VaYechi) he speaks directly to this issue. Well worth listening to. You can find it at Lion and Lamb Ministries. You’ll need to register (free) to be able to listen and the audio stream has their whole service (which in this case went for about 2 1/2 hours). Some may not necessarily like what Monte has to say on this but I respect him as a Torah teacher and as far as I can confirm everything he says on this topic is based directly on scripture (specifically on Torah principles).
I personally cannot listen to Monte Judah. There’s something about his spirit and teachings (just like Michael Rood). I’m sure he is a brother and teaches some truth, but also blatant errors, like “prince charles antichrist”, adopted child can be disowned, but not the native born (“jewish supremacy”?), book of Hebrews should be thrown out, etc. even after repeatedly told the truth.
Hey Larry,
I am curious about you saying “there’s something about his spirit and teachings (just like Michael Rood)….” What do you see in Rood’s spirit and teachings?
Just curious
I’m not saying he has an evil spirit or anything like that, I believe him to be a brother… it’s just something in the delivery of the message that I don’t always like… sorry I can’t be more precise.
Larry – I think you’ve got it backwards – it is the adopted child than cannot be disinherited (and gets the same inheritance as the first-born), which is good news for us as we are all adopted into the family of Abraham and therefore we are all counted as the first-born of Israel (and it was the first-born of Israel who were redeemed by the blood of the Passover Lamb).
I agree that the “Prince Charles Antichrist” teaching that Monte has espoused is wrong, but he has always stressed that it is only his opinion; he does not categorically say that it is the case.
I also disagree with him on the book of Hebrews but he is entitled to his opinion. I’m closer to Rico Cortes’ interpretation of Hebrews than Monte’s.
Nevertheless, like I said, I respect him as a Torah teacher and have learned much from him. He has a way of making the Torah applicable to our lives (physical and spiritual) today that few others have managed. Even better, my wife (who is Romanian and so English is not her first language) can understand him and has also learned much from him, which is a real blessing as she often has difficulty following some others.
Monte is in no way teaching “Jewish Supremacy”; in fact, if you listen to this week’s Torah teaching as I suggested, you’ll find exactly the opposite – he always speaks against that very error (even as a Jew himself).
I don’t agree with him 100% of the time, nor do I agree with Jim Staley, Michael Rood, Joe Dumond or even Scot Dryer 100% of the time (sorry, Scot
). Heck, I don’t even agree with myself sometimes 
. The golden rule is, “test all things against scripture”. If it lines up with scripture, great. If not, leave it and move on. Just don’t “throw the baby out with the bath water”. None of us are perfect, none of us have all the answers. To quote the old Jewish adage, “when Messiah comes He will interpret all things.” In the meantime, feel free to agree to disagree 
.
My comment was not to be taken as criticism/judgment, but as a personal opinion/feeling, although I have to speak out against error. I know what the scriptures teach, but a friend of mine told me Monte teaches that, I will have to verify it again… maybe he got it backwards, in any case, both the native born AND adopted CAN and some WILL be disinherited/disowned/cut off if they are not grafted in and/or don’t continue in truth.
I didn’t say he teaches jewish supremacy, I put a question mark there, because I don’t know. Even though he says he’s jewish and almost always mentions that and talks about jewish this and jewish that (which by the way as I’m sure you know it doesn’t always mean “biblical”), I just get a funny feeling…that’s all, my personal opinion… we used to go to a “messianic synagogue” where although theoretically gentiles are brothers and sisters, practically they are 2nd class citizens, very sad and shameful… it was one of the many reasons we left.
You said “I don’t agree with him 100% of the time, nor do I agree with Jim Staley, Michael Rood, Joe Dumond or even Scot Dryer 100% of the time (sorry, Scot
). Heck, I don’t even agree with myself sometimes 
. The golden rule is, “test all things against scriptureâ€. If it lines up with scripture, great. If not, leave it and move on. Just don’t “throw the baby out with the bath waterâ€. None of us are perfect, none of us have all the answers.”
I agree, although my comment was not about this. Sadly, sometimes there is a point when even teachers have to be called out. I know others agree with me and I know some teachers/teachings have been called out and I have to say that I have been watching some of them and will continue to do so and speak out against let’s say bad stuff. Not everything is rosy within the restoration movement, in fact many things are already looking like those we criticize in christianity. There is hope, the tribulation/judgment will take care of some of these things and in the end Yeshua will restore all things.
You said “when Messiah comes He will interpret all things.†Now I know I don’t have to tell you He already came and did interpret things (and He will do it again)…
and gave us the holy spirit to teach us all things.
I just feel I have to say this again y’all, please, do NOT take my previous comments about the 2 teachers like I consider them bad people, that is NOT what I meant… I believe they are brothers and have good intentions.
Quite right, Larry. We’re reading from the same page (mostly)
. Monte spoke out very strongly against just the sort of attitude that you encountered in the synagogue that you mentioned. “There are no second class citizens in the kingdom!” amongst other things, all based on the prophecies that Jacob spoke over his sons and grandsons (whom he adopted as sons) before he died.
I haven’t listened to all of his stuff… I only speak of what I know or what I’ve heard. I know all these things Rodney, thanks bro. Again, this wasn’t the purpose of my comments… I wasn’t arguing doctrine. The only and entire point of my comments was that there are problems within the restoration movement that are way beyond just “agreeing to disagree” which by the way I believe is an expression (and/or the way it’s applied by many) that comes from political correctness/democracy/greek thinking. There is still much of it within the movement, the way we study, the way we discuss and argue.
PS. I sent you a short email a few weeks ago, did it get lost in your bulk/junk folder maybe?
Larry,
you said:
“lol… people (even some hebrew roots folks) who follow this erroneous kind of thinking, actually believe that God had kids with His wife the holy spirit”
lol… wow… that is so kabbalistic and mystic…
Good points about the pronouns.
1Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
this doesn’t mean that man’s spirit (or God’s spirit) is a person and/or separate from the man, but your spirit knows about you, same with God’s spirit… it is a breath/wind that doesn’t blow from wherever it pleases (randomly), doesn’t speak of itself, but whatever he/she hears from God, tells the things of God… not complicated
Larry,
Another light bulb ALMOST turned on in my brain.
Please be patient with me here
So what your saying is, my spirit in me knows the deeps things about me since my spirit is the real me and not my flesh so to speak. Since we are all spiritual beings correct? So now other person can know the depths of my heart except my spirit within me since it IS me right?
So with that logic, no man can know the depths of Abba’s heart except His own Spirit since He is Spirit. Therefore, in order for US to ever know anything about Abba’s heart, we have to have His Spirit IN US to tell US the depths of HIS heart. Correct?
Another thing that really bothers me is that I was raised believing that we ALL are born spiritually dead and that we only have a soul and body but without Jesus we have no spirit because we are not “born again”. So prior to salvation we are “walking dead” people. This concept has always bothered me.
There are also some Messianic congregations that teach against the concept of original sin. I don’t know about aht one either… ugh. Most of the confusion really stems off of trinitarianism…
hey, my truck is a lady, even though she looks mean, she is nice…
Netz,
God’s Spirit is God (and not a different/3rd person), because God is Spirit.
I believe this too, but the pronouns in our english are confusing… I hate english more and more everytime I study Scripture in depth and take it back to it’s Hebrew context.. ugh.
I love English (I love languages period), but I also have to say that we mess up a lot of things (especially in bible study) because in English objects, abstract things, even animals are “it”, they don’t have gender, or are of “neuter gender”… how insane and unbiblical is that when God only created 2 genders, male and female, and because of this ALL words in Hebrew are of either masculine or feminine gender. There is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding because of this. It is one of the reasons many (even within hebrew roots) believe the holy spirit is a female person, just because the gender of the word is feminine. Now, I don’t want to get in detail on why the word “spirit” (ruach in Hebrew) and “widsom” for that matter are feminine and not masculine and what can be drawn from this, but I know it does NOT mean the spirit (or any spirit) is a female person. In my mother’s tongue, “breath” is also feminine, even “table”, but I have never thought and would never think of them as persons with female genitalia…lol… crazy. In English, this is kind of hard to understand.
Lol… thanks brother. Great points.
When you put it that way, it does sound quite absurd lol.
Larry, one more thing:
The Spirit = YHWH right?
So why would Yahshua say the Spirit doesn’t testify of Himself but of the Father. That’s like saying, “The Father doesn’t testify of Himself, but of the Father.” What Yahshua said in that verse sounds reduntant if the Spirit is YHWH.
Perhaps someone corrupted the words in that passage to fit trinitarianism at some point in history?
ok, lemme put it this way… my mind(spirit) knows my things, same with God’s mind(spirit) knows His things… the mind is NOT a person and/or different from the person… my mind is me, is who I am, what I think, etc… the mind doesn’t speak randomly or from itself or from others, but from you… I am losing my patience brother Netz, NOO… j/k… lol
don’t forget in Hebrew it’s “herself”… I would suggest you take it as “itself” since you are having a hard time understanding
Netz,
I sent you a short email a while back… just wondering if it got in your bulk/junk folder or what.
Isaiah 11:2 speaks of the 7 Spirits of God, all 7 of which were to dwell in Messiah:
Isa 11:1-2 ESV – 1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit. 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
The Spirit of YHVH
The Spirit of Wisdom
The Spirit of Understanding
The Spirit of Counsel
The Spirit of Might
The Spirit of Knowledge
The Spirit of the Fear of YHVH
Solomon was given not only the Spirit of Might and the Spirit of Counsel (common to kings) but also the Spirit of Wisdom.
The wise usually have the Spirit of Wisdom and the Spirit of Understanding.
Prophets usually have the Spirit of Knowledge and the Spirit of the Fear of YHVH.
It is my view that all 7 are encompassed by the term “Ruach HaKodesh” (which puts paid to the trinity right there).
According to Dr Holisa Alewine (“The Creation Gospel”, Olive Branch Ministries) the 7 Spirits of God were each seen working on a different day of creation, each one corresponds to a branch of the menorah, that each one corresponds to one of the Feasts of YHVH and also to one of the 7 churches in Revelation. It is in itself a fascinating study.
Great points about the 7 spirits… I don’t know about Holisa Alewine though, there is a lot of mysticism Jewish and what not, even in hebrew roots circles.
Larry,
Study what Hollisa writes before rejecting her. She can teach you a thing.
Rodney,
thanks for the insight. You listed some examples of what spiritual gifts line up with what concerning the 7 Spirits of YHWH. Is there more? I would like to know what goes with what
More study for you, Net
. I wasn’t speaking about “spiritual gifts” in the “Corinthians” sense of the word, but rather as men appointed to or for specific roles. Kings, Priests, wise men, counsellors, prophets are specific roles that God appoints men to, and He gives them gifts (or manifestations of the Spirit) to equip them for those roles.
King Solomon, for example, as King was blessed with the Spirit of Might and the Spirit of Counsel, but asked for wisdom and as a result also received the Spirit of Wisdom, hence he was a King like no other before or after him, save Messiah himself on whom rest all 7 Spirits of God.
ASCII art won’t work unless I can figure out how to force the font to fixed width but a table might be useful; if you imagine each column as one of the lamps on the menorah you’ll get the picture – Wisdom and the Fear of YHVH are on opposite ends of the same branch (“The fear of YHVH is the beginning of Wisdom), Understanding and Knowledge go together and Might and Counsel are on the third branch. The Spirit of YHVH is the central “trunk” with the Shumash – the servant candle – right in the middle.
Day 1 – Separation of light from darkness – Wisdom, Passover
Day 2 – Separation of waters above from waters below – Understanding, Unleavened Bread
Day 3 – Gathering waters together, dry land, Herbs, trees, fruit, seeds – Counsel, Firstfruits
Day 4 – Sun, Moon, Stars, Appointed Times – Spirit of YHVH, Pentecost.
Day 5 – Fish, Birds – Might/Power, Trumpets
Day 6 – Animals and Man – relationship between Adam and Eve – Knowledge, Yom Kippur
Day 7 – Shabbat – Reverence for YHVH (KJV: Fear of YHVH), Rest, Tabernacles.
An exercise for the reader – look up the messages to the 7 churches in Revelation – check out the meanings of their names and read the messages and see how they relate to the 7 Feasts of YHVH and the 7 Spirits of YHVH.
Nice bro
I would say that the 7 spirits are 7 breaths/attributes of the one spirit of God, not separate from the spirit like in your table.
That is another valid way of viewing it, Larry. What we learn from studying Torah is this;
God always manifests and describes himself in plural form.
God specifically says that He is to be treated as a unified One, and that we are not to partition or divide Him up (He is not “three separate yet co-equal persons”).
God is not necessarily limited to “three”, although that is the most common description and manifestation, yet as we have seen we also have the description of the seven Spirits of YHVH (which, as you say, could also be seen as seven aspects or manifestations of the one Spirit).
God is Truth – Truth requires the witness of two or three, therefore God cannot be “One and Only One” as stated in the first tenet of Judaism, because the witness of “One and Only One” is insufficient to establish Truth. Messiah himself said so. “If I alone testify of myself, it isn’t true” (paraphrase).
Of the three men that appeared to Abraham, why did 2 go down to Sodom and Gomorrah? Because to pronounce judgement, the testimony of 2 witnesses is required. I could give other examples but it probably isn’t necessary.
The patterns are clear right throughout Scripture but they’re established in Torah. We can’t build our understanding of God on any other foundation. He established it “In the beginning” and that’s where we have to begin (and that’s why the church has things so screwed up, because they threw out “In the beginning…” and started with “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ…”
Rodney,
Okay, here’s what I see in scripture… does God need 2 witnesses, do angels need them? No, it’s just humans who need 2 or more witnesses. I believe this is shown in this passage,
John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
John 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
but then because humans need 2 witnesses, He continues,
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
You said “God always manifests and describes himself in plural form. God specifically says that He is to be treated as a unified One, and that we are not to partition or divide Him up (He is not “three separate yet co-equal personsâ€)…God is not necessarily limited to “threeâ€, although that is the most common description and manifestation”
That is simply NOT true… I am pretty sure you know that the plural form in Hebrew is often used to describe greatness… for example in Hebrew you can call one king, kings (plural), to show your respect, your admiration, how great he is, how many great attributes (plural) he has, yet he is just one person. Same with the words elohim, malakim, etc. So, God is NOT a “compound unity”, “unified one”, etc., He is simply ONE, and He is Spirit. He is though echad/one/in unity with those who love and obey Him.
Another problem we have, borrowed from Judaism, that Torah supposedly is the first 5 books… not entirely correct… I’m sure you know, Torah means teachings and instructions and to hit the mark. It can be found throughout the entire canon and also outside of it. Yeshua calls even the Psalms Torah… isn’t it written in your Law ye are gods?( paraphrase) So, back to the first 5 books, there is A LOT of Torah in them, but NOT all of it.
Another thing I have a problem with is the teaching that the first occurrence of a word in scripture, defines that word… in general, this is ok, but it’s NOT always and/or completely correct. Just one example, the word “star” or “light”… it first occurs in Genesis 1, you know what it means… much later we find out that it can also refer to angels, kings, judges, prophets, holy people, etc. I was talking about this to some HR folks and they would NOT accept these meanings of the word, why, they told me, because Brad Scott says that the first occurrence of the word defines the word. I could go on about many other errors, but I simply don’t have the time right now…one more thing though, I believe that before we can study Judaism (and other religions), we need to have a strong foundation in the Word, otherwise we may think we see truth in places where there’s none…shalom
Wow. That is sweet. Cut and paste!
Hey Rodney,
Been studying Hollisa Alewine?
Yes – some time ago. I have the DVD’s of the Creation Gospel presentation that she did at the Chicago ResTorahtion conference in 2008, as well as the 3 workbooks that have a lot more detail. Well worth reading.
Brothers and sisters, my family really needs your prayers right now. My dad is fighting the scriptures with all his might he is just not willing to accept that we are still expected to keep the Law. He’s constantly yelling,cursing, and starting arguments over it. I havent even brought it up anymore because it never ends well, in fact I feel uneasy even being around him since he’s always finding something to fuss about. There is now an ever present tension in our house whenever he’s at home. We literally cannot go through a day together as a family without my mother, my sister, and I being reduced to tears. I have a lot of scars emotionally and spiritually right now…
My mom and sister still dont know a whole lot about scripture but theyve been reading, Ive been slowly trying to introduce Torah to them but now my dads always confronting them with Romans and Galatians when Im not around trying to convince them otherwise… Im really scared for him, hes wrestling with the word and hes hurting us so badly and he just cant see it.. and Im worried for my sister cause shes just 17 and I can see the confusion and the pain in her eyes I dont want the adversary trying to get in and turn her away from seeking God. We dont have any family around its just us four and we dont have anyone to fellowship with that we can go to for support. You guys are really the only people that I feel I can talk to about these things.
I love you all very much…even though Ive never met any of you in person or had many in depth talks with you, I feel yall are the closest thing to family I have apart from my homelife. You are always in my prayers. I know I dont comment as much on here as some of you, I just dont know what to say. But I really care alot about you guys and I wish I lived near more of you so we could fellowship together. Anyways I hope it doesnt look like I was looking for a pity party Im just very down right now in my spirit didnt know where else to turn
God bless you all in Yeshua’s name
Sorry to hear that bro… you and your family will be in our prayers… we love you too man, stay strong.
Bless your hearts, Bradley. I will also keep you and your family in my prayers. We face a somewhat similar situation in my home. But blessedly my husband isn’t overbearing or reducing us to tears very often. Reading about your account makes me realise things could be much worse on this note in my home. I will definitely be praying for you, and your family. I also wish we all lived closer to each other.
The enemy is trying to wear us all down. I keep hearing of people being worn down, attacked, sick, dispirited. Be encouraged and trust Yah to water the seeds you’ve planted. I’ll be praying He works in your family’s heart a hunger and thirst for Truth so acute that they seek Him like never before. That way, He will convict and convince them. You just keep seeking Him and yielding to Him and try not to get snared by the enemy, brother. Keep yielding to Him and He will love them through you brother.
Yah bless and keep you brother. Much love in Y’shua xo
Thank you guys, your compassion really means alot to me… my heart is strengthened even now reading your words. Godbless you and make your ways prosper. I will be sure to keep you in my prayers always and give thanks continually for my brothers and sisters. Much love in Yeshua
bradley,
I will pray that your father stays in the truth.
Hi Chris,
I was just going back through this post this morning looking for a comment that I remember being made some time ago, thinking it might have been here. It was not.
But interestingly enough I came across Bradley’s request for prayers and his story about his father. Since that time, (actually less then a month from the time Bradley wrote these comments here last year), Bradley and I met one another. We live an hour away from each other and now get together pretty regularly. At most, when we get together now there are about 7or 8 of us. Either Bradley (and his family) come here, or another brother and I drive there. We meet or Bible study and fellowship. It feels as though I have known Bradley my whole life, and though he and I are 20 years difference in age, I feel as close to him as anyone my age, and anyone I’ve known for that long. He’s a great kid, the kind of young man I would be VERY proud to have as a son one day, (if the LORD ever blesses me with children). He studies the word so diligently, shares his faith patiently and with much love, and definitely walks what he talks. I can tell you, you would be honored to meet him and get to know him.
I have gotten to know Bradley’s father pretty well, too, (and the only reason I don’t know him better is because he is oftentimes having to work when we have our studies/fellowship). You’ll be disappointed to learn that Bradley’s father is a man who has had his eyes opened to THE truth, (but NOT the “truth” to which you subscribe), and he is on fire for YHWH now, admittedly more than he ever could have been before when he didn’t understand our relationship to the Torah. And believe me, as a witness to this transformation that has taken place, He KNOWS the Messiah. And it appears to me he is losing much of the angst to which Bradley referred in his post above. He is a really neat brother to be around – hungry for the word. He is a great man and has two children who love him, their mother, and each other, and who all seek the LORD fervently. It’s so fun to listen to him talk about the word, because he makes connections left and right which could only be spirit-led, and sees the harmony of the word now, from Genesis through Revelation.
To what do I attribute this change in Bradley’s father? Simple – he has seen the light and realizes now that ALL scripture must be in agreement, instead of sliced and diced in the manner with which you (and those like you who still hold fast to a “the law is done away with” theology) see it.
So, the prayers of us who have been praying for Bradley’s father, those of us whose prayers are NOT abomination (Prov 28:9) – our prayers have been, and are being answered.
It is my sincere hope that YOU come to THE truth, too, and leave the errors, falsehood, and deception behind. Get on board; the train looks like it might be leaving soon.
Sincerely,
Victor
Vic, I don’t know if you’re still lurking or not, but wanted you to know, brother – that I came across your post (above) today and re-read it. It really lifted me up – and encouraged me. I won’t go into detail – but wow, it really put things into perspective. Sometimes we pray and pray and petition Abba for things and never know the results of our prayers, if we’ve been heard (like in Bradley’s situation – he is far off from me – across the pond so to speak and we don’t know each other)…so it s VERY encouraging to be shown and reminded that the prayers of the righteous availeth much. Sometimes I forget I’m one of the righteous in Messiah (through Him – because of Him…not of myself!) and that when I approach Him rightly, humbly – He does hear my prayers. This makes me so full of joy……after a week from hell. Praise Yahuwah for His tender mercies which are new every morning – Shabbat shalom!
Brother, get Avi ben Mordichai’s “Gallatians” series or book….it’ll take his entire “christian” based argument apart piece by piece and put it into perspective.
David,
Forgive me but I must ask a favor. Would you please use a last name initial or something. I have been on this blog for three years and I don’t want others to confuse your posts as being mine?
Especially since you seem so eager to trash my brother Avi.
To everyone else. Folks this is a new David. Do not mistake his posts for mine. I am not portrayed by a snowman or owl or whatever that thing is.
Blessings to all.
David, the obnoxious one! LOL.
David, I don’t think David was trashing Avi….he was saying get Avi’s series on Galatians and that Avi’s series would take apart the entire ‘christian’ based argument. You probably just misread it…I had to read it twice too, lol. I inititally thought he’d typed ‘I’ll take his entire’…instead of ‘it’ll (as in it will…) take his entire’…..
I think our eyes are getting old or sumthin
.
David,
Forgive me please? Like Lisa said, I believe my eyes are getting too old for this. I believe I am getting too old for the blog. Hard to admit but I have been failing since my cancer. I hope everyone understands.
Shalom all, and thanks Lisa and zenshu.
David
david,
i’m probably older than you with heart attack and recurring cancer,and i’m saying to you: stop flapping your lip and get back on the horse.:o)
How is your recovery going since the cryogenic treatment David? Are you improving?
david,
how was david(snowman) trashing avi???
Sorry to hear that man. We’ll be praying in our house for you as well… let’s hope for the best case scenario which would be that your dad gets his leg broken and gets a new name!
Bradley,
There is no need to worry about or think you’re having a pity party, brother. You’re among siblings here:
“Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.” (Matthew 12:47-50)
As I’m sure you know by now, the kind of thing you’re faced with is happening everywhere. It’s not easy, either, when you can’t go anymore and sit each Sunday in a 500 member congregation with a bunch of “like-minded” people and bolster yourself in the “comfort” of numbers. It’s not easy when you know you don’t have the stamp of denominational approval at your back serving as the wind in your sails. I’ve been told time and time again by a certain very special lady in my life (whom I’m starting to believe more and more I’ve lost forever),
“I don’t know ANYONE who believes like YOU!!”
“You’re an EXTREMIST!!”, etc.
It’s never been easy, brother, and it never will be this side of the kingdom. (And who knows, it may not be that much easier there for people, as hard as that is to imagine.) The funny thing is, I used to believe I knew what persecution was (when I called myself an “evangelical Christian”) and went around passing out gospel tracts and doing street evangelism. But as I set my feet on the path I’m on now (where I finally realized I’m a grafted-in, former gentile known as “Israel”) a brother who was teaching me told me that if I thought I had known what persecution was before, wait until I carry THIS message into the church to my “brothers” there. Then I would know what persecution is. And though that persecution is nothing like believers in, say, China face, it’s persecution nevertheless.
I was saddened to read your story here, even without the many painful details I know you probably could have added. (A ShamWow may have been in order had you gone into tremendous detail, because I know how hard it is, brother.) One thing that struck me is the way you said your father acts. With a respectful, sincere, tender heart, and a calm voice, you might want to ask him sometime, “Are disciples in Jesus Christ supposed to act like you’re acting?” His tirades, brother, are the products of conviction (and nothing more). One day, I have to believe, if he truly is the Father’s, those actions of his will be some of the very things the Father uses to open his eyes and teach him about the faith once delivered to the saints. For if Yah’s Spirit dwells in him, it won’t allow the anger, hostility and strife he’s causing to go unchecked. Be assured of that.
As far as the letters to the Romans and Galatians go, I would guess many of us here (who know the word better than I did when I began walking this path) have used those as our best arguments in the past, too. If I had a dime for every time those two letters were thrown in my face as the “Torah-smashing sledge hammers” they’re purported to be, I’d be sitting on a pile of silver coins so big that they could fill a baby pool up to look like a giant, shiny muffin. All you have to ask is,
“Are there any contradictions in the Bible?”
It’s interesting and, quite frankly sad, that the very same people who will say there are none, are the very same people who set forth a “Law vs. Grace” defense of their unbiblical, lawless positions. What’s so scary, though, is that they view (and teach) Paul as co-equal to (or worse, above) YHWH, with the all-too-typical one liner, “Yeah, but Paul said!”
I feel for you, brother, and understand the pain you’re experiencing (as probably everyone here does as well). You’ll be added to my prayers. I hope we get to talk soon (as I’m so thankful we’ve recently learned we live in fairly close proximity to one another).
Love,
Vic
Amen Vic. What blessed words of encouragement for our brother Bradley
Hi everyone,
This blog has been really powerful in opening my eyes to the trinity lie. Thank-you Scot for giving great clarity in what is really going on concerning this false doctrine. Please could you help me understand further concerning Yeshua. He was not at creation, or didn’t walk through the pieces during the Abrahamic Covenant or was not on the throne in Isaiah when Isaiah said “woe is me, I am a man of unclean lips…” or wrestle with Jacob through the night, or an angel of the Lord. What I have been taught at the assemblies is that in all these instances scripture was referring to Yeshua. So I guess my question is was Yeshua alive or a spirit before he was born on earth?
Thanks a bunch,
Jenny
I hope someone who has clarity on Jenny’s questions will share what they know or have been shown. I was just re=reading this thread today and so hopefully, someone will share:).
Shabbat shalom everyone.
Just a little 2 cents to add here.
Echad means “one”, but it also means “same”.
Ever heard the phrase “one and the same”?
Thats a Jewish phrase.
So it is entirely grammatically correct to say “Hear oh Israel, Adonai, Elohanu, Adonai is the same!”
Also, Echad can mean in some cases “a certain man”
http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/259.htm
Shalom!
Here is a random question, what program/software is being used to create this video?
-Anna
That a good example how life shoulds all work. Its that we are the image of God. Man is a soul, spirit, and flesh. John tells us that the Word became Flesh and that the Word was with God and is God. Yahushua is the Flesh, Yahweh is the Soul, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit. That also why Yahushua said My God, My God; 2 times at the cross. The Spirit and Soul leaving the Body for they are a unity of One. Our flesh has broke God Word back in the garden. When Satan tempt God to break His Word. Luke 4:12 Yahushua answer you shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
Thanks for the comment. Yeshua also said that God is spirit, not flesh or soul. He indwells bodies (believers), He indwelt Yeshua, He indwells us, yet that does NOT make us God.