DRAWING BOARD
Feel free to select the “embed†option in any video, copy the code and paste it into your own web page code to play it from your site.
The Trinity
Leave a Reply
My Control Panel
Recent Comments
Lisa,I just realized how that...
By DebraSome of the passages refer...
By Lisa (Editor)@April Your kidding!!! Thats awsome!...
By April@April Hey girlfriend, I don’t seem...
By April
By April
By Lisa (Editor)Yep, the list is so...
By Larry (Editor)I thought this was an...
By Steven
By April
By Larry (Editor)
Latest Posts
Login
Comments
Scot, why was the debate post removed?
You apparently did not read what I posted or you would know why it was removed though paranoia in you might be inclined to think I had something to hide.
If you are not intersted in reading what I posted but only posting I would kindly ask you to reconsider. I know the post was long but at the end you will find the reason it was removed and for no other reason. The wrong thing to do would be to skip to the end and ingore the content.
Same lie as in the Garden! “In the day that you eat of it, you will be like God.”
Plain as the nose on your face Dave.
Jesus is co-equal with the Father
We are co-equal with Jesus.
Therefore we are co-equal with the Father.
Typical Greek thinking. Wake up and pay attention.
This false teaching is constantinian/satanic lies that will land you in the same eternal dwelling place as the father of the lie.
Greg,
Reserve judgment on my last post to you. I want to do some more research. My memory could be flawed on this one.
Blessings brother.
David
My apologies. There is no paranoia in me. I never accused you of anything so the accusation kinda hurts. I skimmed over your post and was going to re-read it when i got home. I never said you had something to hide. Honestly i never said we had to agree. Like i said my mind is always open, but i study and pray for the Father to lead me to the truth. I consider what you say on the subject, but it leaves a lot of questions still to be answered.
Larry my brother!
You and I have disagreed on this subject for the past year. I still to this day do not understand your point of view. Just who do you believe Yeshua is? There are multiple Scriptures that teach that Yeshua is YHVH. He spoke it out of His own mouth. He called Himself “I AM.” The law of first usage says that we should interpret this as YHVH. That is the meaning of the Word, YHVH.
One thing I know Larry. I am not a trinitarian so lets not go there this time. But I do believe that Yeshua is who He says He is. So, perhaps you or Scot, or you and Scot could tell me clearly what it is you believe. I read your posts and believe we are on the same page and then you come back with a statement that leaves me scratching my head.
Darrell and Darrell. I am not sure where you stand on this either. Both your posts leave me wondering.
So, here we are! Larry, Darrell and Darrell.
Who is Yeshua?
OK guys,
Forget all that. I went back and read again. I think I am following you both.
If believing that Yeshua is YHVH means that I think we will become equal with YHVH, then, I definitely do not believe that!
Just the thought of that makes me tremble.
I think I am just going to wait and see. It is obviously too huge for us.
Dave is a proponent of Aramaic “primacy” of the New Testament as are these men that love and lift up Bashar Al-Assad of Syria while teaching others to obey tradition and not Abba:
Mar Dinkha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Assyrian_Patriarch.jpg
Joseph Younan:
http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2009/02/17/213277.htm
Paul Younan (as featured on Dave’s website) – Deacon of Church of the East in Chicago
Spend a little while and look into their beliefs…then watch THIS MONTH celebrating Christmas as they do every year with The Assyrian in Damascus.
Here is a picture of the “Freedom Flotilla” supporters brought to you by the eastern “Christian Churches” from the same location.
http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2010/06/04/291369.htm
Don’t think for a minute that Abba would allow Babylonian MIXTURE to creep into the Restoration movement without oppostion, not even from Peshitta.org OR Aramaic primacy arguments. I have read the books from COVER TO COVER and even from the “latest” looking for the “overall spirit” and how it lines up with what is coming down the pipe…so be warned.
Myself and others will be watching “soon coming” Aramaic proponents with a fine tooth brush to sift through the godmaking theology that started in Assyria and will end in Jerusalem. RUN from them EVEN IN the larger conferences. Lies are best mixed with a bit of truth…
Scot, Amen to this and the longer comment too. Praise Abba.
yes, great posts… this guy is good, don’t let it go to your head though
Larry, I was referring to the guy who made the quote and that one wasn’t me…I wasn’t saying “I am good” lol…
I know…lol… I on the other hand was referring to our brother (beam me up) Scottie , I think you know him… I’ve missed him, haven’t heard from him (personally) in a while
Dasize, intention was not to hurt..sorry friend.
David, you summed itup simply with your last post.
Everybody…please read my lengthy post above and also watch out for the Aramaic primacy guys as well as the Hebrew primacy guys and Greek primacy guys. It is ALL nonsense though we need not cloud the issue that Hebrew thought does get lost in translation…neither the Eastern Churches (Aramaic & Syriac) OR the Western Churches (Greek) are doing what they should be but they can both agree that a Flotilla is exactly what the doctor ordered for the Israelites that are such a bother…same spirit…same end.
I agree with David on all of his above posts so i guess i’m not a Trinitarian either. I never liked the word anyways. You can not sum YHWH up that easy. It will be made clear in the end, amen to that!
Scot when would be a good time to call you. I have a question and it is not related to this topic. Ki just left you a voice mail a few minutes ago.
dasize,
You said, “I agree with David on all of his above posts…”
You should know that I am in Scot’s camp completely. Especially where it concerns the Covenants.
A typical christian error is to confuse the “Book of the Covenant” as outlined in Exodus 19:5 – 28:8 and, the “Book of the Law” which is outlined in Exodus 24:12 – Chapter 32.
Go read them about 100 times and slam your head up against a wall and see if something shakes up and you see clearly. When that doesn’t work, fall to your knees and do tshuvah to YHVH for living in violation to His Covenant and disobedience to His Commandments, then go and sin no more. That means, Keep Shabbat, Keep the Moedim of YHVH, out of a loving heart, THEN, go back and read it again and it will make sense.
You, Chris, Dave, and all those in the camp of Constantine will never see the truth until you humble yourselves and become obedient because He doesn’t give His Light to the disobedient heart.
Blessings B’HaShem Yeshua HaMashiach!
David,
Im not in that Camp. In fact my comments state the opposite! I think you are confusing my comments with some of the others. I strongly disagree with Chris. Just where did u get that idea from? I’ve been in the Hebrew Roots for years. Please quote where i said anything like that.
Scot, thanks for your lengthy post. It goes toward helping to explain the Truth while tearing away the lies.
I’m still learning about this topic in more depth.
YHWH is the Father (Our Mighty Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob).
Y’shua is the Son made in the image/likeness of YHWH.
The Word, which was from the beginning, was in Y’shua and He was obedient, and sinless. So, Y’shua is the Word – the Memra, from the beginning (if I’m understanding correctly).
The order of hierarchy:
Abba is the Head of Y’shua.
Y’shua is the head over man.
Man over woman.
And the Ruach haKodesh (the Spirit of Abba) is what connects us together. If we are not submitting, then a breakdown occurs.
Please can you explain the word BEGOTTEN – ONLY BEGOTTEN SON? What does it really mean?
BEGOTTEN:
be·get   /bɪˈgɛt/ Show Spelled
[bih-get] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), be·got or ( Archaic ) be·gat; be·got·ten or be·got; be·get·ting.
1. (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
2. to cause; produce as an effect: a belief that power begets power.
——————————————————————————–
Origin:
bef. 1000; ME begeten ( see be-, get); r. ME biyeten, OE begetan; c. Goth bigitan, OHG bigezzan
—Related forms
be·get·ter, noun
—Synonyms
1. spawn, sire, breed, father. 2. occasion, engender, effect, generate.
World English Dictionary
begotten (bɪˈɡɒt ə n)
— vb
a past participle of beget
I found that “begotten” means :
-of offspring, generated by procreation
-naturally begotten child> similar biological
-for example : Abraham begot Isaac
-Men often father children but don’t recognize them.
I know Scot will explain it better.
serafima, Greetings my Sister.
It sounds like you are on the right track.
Begotten, is the male side of the equation. We are all Begotten in Mashiach Yeshua to a living hope, or hope of life. However, until the Woman gives birth there is no completion of new life. It is so in our being born again. We are begotten, then we grow and mature, as in the womb, then at the Resurrection we are “Born Again.”
Scot,
Are you advising us to avoid the Peshitta?
Thank you David, what you said is great! Amen!
No, just the baggage that comes with the “primacy” guys from within each camp…whether Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew. It is the same spirit that is behind the Arabic only madness within Islam. There are LIARS that hate our Father and his commandments in every language. They will dance around, tell dreamy stories and with their gnostic ideas “rock the babies to sleep.” I for one am NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL with any Hebrew or Aramaic scholar today that does not ALSO and with equal measure point you to the lies coming out of the Middle East even as they restore an eastern outlook of the scriptures. Without exception the lies have a HUGE home base in Syria\Assyria as does Aramaic.
When Abba showed me the end 14 years ago as well as its head it made it very easy to wade through the fog since then. Just look for things that he propogates and lies that might not originate with him but that he is willing to entertain. Its really cool.
Thanks Scot,
I just recently ordered the new translation of the peshitta from Andrew Gabriel Roth. I have heard good things about it and I want to see for myself.
If you have any insight or advice on it I would appreciate it.
You must be hearing some teachings from that area that I have been missing. I certainly want to be on my guard against error. Any links or information you can give me on what I should be watching for would be appreciated. Please don’t hesitate to name names. If you don’t want to do it on the blog, email me and I will keep confidence. I just want to be prepared to lead folks in the right direction. I teach a lot of people and must be careful.
Scot,
First I find it fascinating that you always seem to disregard valid arguments for the deity (godhood) of Jesus and the Trinity.
Now you are talking about the original text of the scriptures? Are you trying to divide and conquer those of us who hold to a Trinitarian view by getting us to argue over the origin of the text? Just checking. Kind of seems like a possible strategy.
I’ll say this. The NT text was written primarily in Koine Greek. There is a possibility that some of the texts were penned originally in Aramaic. There is zero possibility that any of it was written in Hebrew. There is no proof not a single manuscript that even remotely supports the Hebrew Primacy view.
Chris,
It is extremely disappointing to see that after all these months of silence from you, you return just as you left. No growth whatsoever. Seminary seems to be suiting you well. The Constantinian lie is growing stronger in you. Instead of coming back in love, you come back with an attitude to disrupt, judge, accuse, and divide.
Proverbs 6:16-19, “Six things YHVH hates; Seven are an abomination to Him: A haughty spirit, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A mind that hatches evil plots, Feet quick to run to evil, AND ONE WHO INCITES BROTHERS TO QUARREL.” (caps mine).
Psalms 133: 1-2, “Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity.”
Very sad Chris.
Wretch,
I have no animosity toward Protesting Catholics as many of my friends are. Though being clear about the origin of Catholic customs within the daughter assemblies helps them chose who to obey. The feasts, sabbath, clean and unclean are NOT Jewish feasts but instead YHWH’s feasts for all believers and they always have been. They do not belong to Moses. To assume that the only reason why one would desire to obey YHWH’s feasts is to try to get to heaven is to apply the same misconception to Y’shua. He did it because he loved His Father as do I.
The feast didn’t point (past tense) to Christ…they still do and are a picture of what is ahead. Moreover, they contain the times of the harvesting.
I pray that you don’t confuse resolve with a bad temper. I can be firm when I need to be but in 2 years I have only had to boot 2 people out of hundreds of thousands and numerous discussions with disagreement. You don’t know me friend. I am soft inside (and out) and that is why I speak the way I do. Protestantism carries the baton of Catholicism whether she likes it or not as her actions speak louder than her words. The days of convocation that she learned from her mother are the principle testimony to that. While I am sure that there are many in the kingdom that thought they were Catholic or Protestant I am also certain that they now know that they are Israelites and Abba was never on board with their tradition to begin with.
You seem like a nice person and all with the teddy bear references so long as they are not masking rebellion against your heavenly father. Keep digging fellow.
Divide?..lol…from one that is part of a denomination\sect. You two are already divided except where the lie would keep you in agreement.Truly spoken from your hatred for those who desire unity in the same instruction regardless of enthnic or cultural persuasion. Here is your divide…a cult\sect\denomination represents a break from a truth that came before it and as such all relegions that came AFTER YHWH instructed (torah) qualify.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Matthew = Hebrew
Revelation = Hebrew
Hebrews = Hebrew (then Greek) possibly originally by Paul or one of his contemporaries as a LATE letter. A late letter written in Hebrew which had to be translated INTO Greek. So why would earlier letters have been written originally in Greek if the later letter had to be translated for the original author? Much archaelogical evidence of an active Hebrew culture in the first century alongside both Greek and Aramaic are available.
What you should do is consider what the metro intellectuals within Judaism thought about Greeks, their historical incongruencies and gentiles at large. Then consider the absurdity of them relying on Greek theologians for transcribing the scriptures.
Peter and SOME of the Pharisees would be a good example of the disdain for the heathen (albeit wrong) that had a hold on many of the synagogues…the main established location of convocation outside of homes and random meeting places abroad.
I know…facts and data are a real problem to the Greek philosopher…Qumran, Dead Sea Scrolls, The Essene Sect (anti-Hellenists), Josephus Flavius, achaeology, linguistics, etc…
Nearly every time you open your mouth a lie pops out Chris. The Roman\Greek lie is almost embarassing to hear in light of the last 100 years worth of scholarship (and before then as well).
Some manuscripts were written and copied in the third century. Most are originals or copies from the FIRST CENTURY. Some of them from right before the destuction of the Temple in 70AD…
Josephus records three major “sects” Pharisees, Saducees (like Karaites today) and of course the Essenes. The Essenes were believed to be from the Hasadim which date back to the period of the Maccabees.
The cool thing is the Greek doesn’t even support anomian bias. It is not suprising that you loathe the fact of Hebrew being alive because you hate the torah that Abba writes on the hearts of Hebrews…it is telling.
Scot,
Prove your Hebrew origin theory. Please use real reputable widely accepted scholarship. Otherwise please stop spreading myths and fairy tales.
Chris,
You said, ”
Scot,
Prove your Hebrew origin theory. Please use real reputable widely accepted scholarship. Otherwise please stop spreading myths and fairy tales.”
Tell us Chris, Just what is your idea of “reputable widely accepted scholarship?”
Is that according to your seminary?
Is that according to the church fathers?
Is that according to the southern baptists?
Is that according to the evangelicals?
Is that according to the catholic mother church?
Please just tell us who sets the standards that we are to observe in order to continue to answer your sh’eil’ot?
Real reputable widely accepted scholarship can vary greatly in this great big religious world.
“reputable widely accepted scholarship†= anything that supports an “Israel & The Church” false paradigm
good one
Vic,
I and many other mainstream evangeicals believe in one “Israel of God”. Sounds like you are not abreast of the different camps within the Christian church. Don’t buy the HRM lie that all evangelicals attempt to divide the Church and Israel and are a bunch of anti-semites.
I wonder if Jesus had “Mainstream Evangelicals” in mind when he said the following…
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Chris,
Stop throwing around words like “lie”. I have read many of your statements on this blog for some time now (enough that I’ve almost had to break out the TUMS on several occasions) and it appears from the things you have stated many times that you don’t believe in keeping God’s commandments. And if that is indeed the case, you, sir, are a liar (according to 1 John 2:4).
I don’t know you and I’m sorry to be so blunt, but it just seems like you get a kick out of stirring the pot here. (In trying to reach people with my fairly newfound understanding of the scriptures – the “roots” of our faith – I’ve had to learn the lesson (and still have a ways to go sometimes) that I can attract a lot more bees with honey than with vinegar. And I sure can’t try to hit people over the head and be contentious and expect them to see the truth. (In fact, I started learning that lesson 2 1/2 years ago when I used to “hit the streets”, Way of the Master/Living Waters style, as I toted my “gospel” tracts around and shared (part of) the gospel with “the lost” of the world.
If you truly believe in one “Israel of God”, does that mean you believe the Gentile Christian church replaced “the Jews”? Do you also believe in Dispensationalism? If you truly believe in one “Israel of God”, and a seed (word/set of instructions/teachings) that never evolved into something different than what it was “in the beginning”, how can you continue to stay where you are in your beliefs? If you truly believe you’re something different than what the RCC (and of course, others influenced by Satan and/or his demons before it) has instituted, why do you still adhere to her dictates and traditions? Someone on here said recently something about how Protestants (of which I used to call myself one) should really call themselves “Protholics”. It’s true. In fact, it’s a spot-on term.
I’ve asked you several questions here, but only for you to consider during your quiet time alone (or maybe with others who share your beliefs). Please don’t be compelled to come back here and answer them in some sassy, Nancy-boy fashion. I don’t care to read it. It’s all so tired and played, man. We’ve all been around your mountain enough and don’t want any more of the counterfeit, “Made in Babylon” wares you constantly try and peddle to those of us who were previously duped into buying the same when WE were “Sunday-mornin’-go-d’-meetin’”, “Christian Sabbath”, “C&E”, “we-can-eat-whatever-we-want-now” fools, too.
Please go away from here, Chris. I can tell you that I almost get a stomach ache whenever I see your name at this blog. If you know that you’re causing strife (and you know strife is not something disciples should be causing) then you are sinning by coming back here again and again. Now I’m sure you’ll have some smart aleck thing to say about everything I’ve written here, which is what I (and I’m sure others reading this) expect to happen. So before you get it in your hard heart to do that, just stop and ask yourself why you keep coming back here and desiring to cause strife.
In fact, if you DO come back, we’ll ALL know what you truly are about.
Sincerely,
Vic
All the Christian Churches are anti-semitic Chris. Teaching and preaching the lie that Torah is done away with and trying to get Jews into that lie is an attack on their soul and more dangerous to them that hitlers attack on their bodies. Hitler would kill them physically but the Constantinian lie held by the RCC and all her daughters will kill their nefesh.
Go learn something Chris. I get tired of the same old lame rhetoric. And, as you learn, make sure it is truth instead of the lies you are chocking down in seminary.
Good point.
Knock it off with your fallacious talk. Quit making false generalizations.
David,
I would say any diligent scholarly research that accepts the historical view of Christ and the church would be “reputable scholarship”. Any group that attempts to create a completely new paradigm such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, or HRM adherents is to be avoided because they have chosen to reject the historical Jesus and the historical church from the time of the apostles forward. If you think you have found your own ‘new’ truth after 2,000 years of great minds and great men of God have lived and died and failed to see it and seize it that is the height of arrogance and delusion. If you have a new and novel idea it is probably heresy re-born.
2 things believers in the 1st century did not have…
A New Testament
A Church
Heresy and “a sect” are the same. A sect is something “new” that was NOT revealed in the law and the prophets but causes one to break from their words…ALL religions do that, including yours.
sect
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sect
1. a body of persons adhering to a particular religious faith; a religious denomination.
2. a group regarded as heretical or as deviating from a generally accepted religious tradition.
3. (in the sociology of religion) a Christian denomination characterized by insistence on strict qualifications for membership, as distinguished from the more inclusive groups called churches.
4. any group, party, or faction united by a specific doctrine or under a doctrinal leader.
Before you get excited regarding what you would undoubtedly read INTO number three remember that SECTARIANISM is what Paul was accused of and as HIS DEFENSE he said he believed ALL that is written in the Law & The Prophets. As such, the standard to determine a sect today is not only the same but quite CLEARLY establishes tha ALL of Christian denominations (and the other world religions) qualify as there cannot be ONE presented from the time of the Law and The Prophets.
The Church & Israel paradigm DOES not automatically mean one is antisemitic though it does however continue the SAME sectarianism that keeps the true believers in them divided (sect).
Number one and two are easy enough though number four deserves a word or two. Show me the “leader” of what you call a cult (while rejecting what Paul used as his defense, the torah and the prophets)? There IS NO LEADER, not ONE. On the other hand, consider the following…
This is not hard (some follow Paul, Some follow Apollos, some follow………..)
Catholic – Pope
Lutheran – Luther
Methodist – Wesley
Presbyterian – Knox
Baptist – Calvin (in Canada there are Calvinist churches with busts of him)
SDA – Ellen White
LDS – Joseph Smith
How far should I go with this?
The same madness can be applied to Islam, Judaism, etc…those in it are blind to the sin…
WE HAVE ALL DONE THIS as we have all defected from truth (causing division with both God and our brother), truth that applies to us today and came BEFORE any of the sects before.
God’s law represents the BOUNDARIES of his body…the Grace extended by him is to graft us BACK IN and keep us there. That includes do’s and don’ts…as well as seasons, times, days, months and years as his plan is still unfolding.
That makes perfect sense, Scot. In fact, Chris, you’ve probably heard the following quote before. (It would be good for you to keep it in mind from this point forward): “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” -Mark Twain
(I don’t know anything about Twain’s faith, but I do know that this is a good quote.)
The Watchtower- Charles Russel
In Amsterdam (sp?) there is a church of weed where they worship and smoke MJ during service….
Also, if you guys do some digging, there is also something called the Clown Church or something. They dress up as clowns and do “clown communion”. The pastor actually dresses up as a clown and preaches behind the pulpit every week… it’s sickening.
It is interesting that EVERY group that Scot listed and many others have one thing in common:
They deny the Torah the Holy instructions of the Father.
Just as I expected Chris, It must fit your paradigm to be reputable. Don’t you see that the two camps will never merge? So why do you challenge Scot? You know darn well that you will not accept what he says and he will not accept what you say. You will not except his scholars and he will not accept yours. YOU KNOW THIS CHRIS! IT HAS BEEN THIS WAY FOR TWO YEARS!
You are only here to cause division.
It is YHVH who gives light! Not the church fathers, so called! What you call arrogance and delusion is actually Truth, given by the Ruach HaKodesh which you call Holy Spirit, so when you label it as arrogant and delusion you are bordering on blasphemy of the Ruach HaKodesh!
Be very careful Chris! Choose your words wisely because you will face them in the future. They are recorded. If I were you I would make them soft and sweet because you are going to have to eat them.
Really Scot, I mean Really,
You actually use Wikipedia as a source. If you were actually even attempting to argue something you would be laughed out of the building. So I will start here LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
“The cool thing is the Greek doesn’t even support anomian bias.”
Definitely, in fact it is amazing, almost unbelievable to me how the pro-Torah language, teachings and nuances have been preserved in the Greek, clearly originally written by Hebraic Torah keepers and it would be logical NOT in Greek, but Hebrew.
Not a source for any scriptural point…it was the first list of denominations or sects that I found. Which would explain THE TITLE OF THE LINK as I was just talking about cults\sects\denominations. So why don’t you represent things correctly. When Paul was accused of sectarianism\cult HE POINTED BACKWARDS to the law and the prophets as His defense.
Don’t make the text run of the edge please. The spirit you bring to the blog is fruity…settle down a bit, please.
speaking of “next step in human evolution” earlier, I was trying out this video-game demo BioShock, I didn’t know what it was about…crazy, it’s all about genetically modifying ourselves to get powers to kill others, actually one of the slogans in the game is “get these powers, evolve”… this is everywhere in our culture today, movies, TV, video games.
Some of the games are really wicked today…most contain some form of deception that ties into the end game delusion.
I don’t believe in the trinity concept because I don’t see the Ruach Hakodesh as a ‘person’ but everytime it is refer to it is the person of God Himself. Like I have a spirit, the spirit of God is the Holy Spirit. There isn’t Me and my spirit, we are one.
God is ACTION, his actions are performed by His word, or, His command. A word in a visible place must have a form and that is Yeshua. The command/word/action called Salvation in a visible and tangible form.
When Moses asked to see the Lord’s kavod, he saw nothing. That is because you can only experience the ACTION. God can only be LIVED/EXPERIENCED. The only way we can actually see with our eyes is by seeing Yeshua in the flesh.
This WORD/COMMAND is also refer to as ‘name’ GOD has many names, each name is a action. Yah Shuah is one of the names.
You missed it again… that Word can also be/is in us, NOT just in Yeshua, but that would NEVER make us YHVH or Yeshua… like Scot says, ONE Father, multiple sons and daughters.
Observer,
Thanks for clarifying. I agree with that is well. The spirit is not a person of a trinity. I thought you were implying that Yeshua and the father were the same entity which would be Pentecostal Oneness, that the Father is Yeshua himself. I believe Yeshua was the pre-existent logos (word), but not a pre-existent man of the trinity.
dasize,
You are correct, I did get you confused with others. Forgive me. I thought I read some posts of yours where you were using terms heard in the churches rather than Hebrew Roots sources. My mistake.
When I say ‘word’ I mean the action word. Let me see if I can explain:
When He activates his name COMPASSION – Voila , compassion is automatically on on that person or circumstance. But the compassion is carried out by His servants (heavenly) or you and me. If He wants to show compassion to a poor person, He just need to say it and it will happen. I might ended up giving money to somebody or the boss might decide to give a bonus or whatever.
The action Salvation is through the sacrifice of a human, a sinless human. This man was not found among his creation so He provided a sinless man and this man is Him, while He still has all His other names/actions. He could do everything and be everywhere at all times. What Yeshua calls the Father is in fact, the source of all. From where everything originates, where the actions/words come from.
Complicated
Observer,
You said:
“The action Salvation is through the sacrifice of a human, a sinless human.”
and
“He still has all His other names/actions.”
Just a couple of things to consider:
1) Human sacrifice? I think not, brother.
Human sacrifice is an abomination to YHWH. Y’shua was the [Passover] Lamb – willingly laying down His life to atone for our sins. And that is not ‘human sacrifice’.
2) YHWH only has ONE Name. Not many names. One.
What you call ‘other names’ or ‘many names’ are in fact, attributes of YHWH. They are describing words (adjectives) of His attributes. But He has only one name. And that name is YHWH.
Lisa,
I used to think that human sacrifice was an abomination to God, but when someone dies for their own sin, it is a sacrifice to God. What He abhor is the sacrifice to other gods, regardless of the kind.
In Ezequiel 39 He talks about His sacrifice of animals and people and call the birds to feast on their flesh. We also see in Judges a man sacrificing his daughter to the Lord and no prophet or angel came to stop him as it did happen with Avram. This last case was different, it has more to do with the importance of a vow, but still…
His attributes sister, are actions. You can not know faithfulness if not by experience. Faithfulness is not another being, but the action of the same being. In case of salvation, as it had to happen in the visible, then it had to be this way. His word or his attribute of Savior had a human form to dwell among us.
Observer,
you said:
“when someone dies for their own sin, it is a sacrifice to God. What He abhor is the sacrifice to other gods, regardless of the kind.”
I don’t think that the Torah having someone die for their sins is considered a sacrifice to YHWH because they are dying for an abomination they commited wilfully against Abba. Abominations are not to be offered to YHWH as “sacrifices”. I know what you mean, but the concept of the death penalty in the Torah was made in the context of a civil law and not a sacrificial one.
Also, in Judges YHWH did not ask for that man to sacrifice his daughter. The context of that passage is based on the Torah concept of making vows and not sacrificing humans. But you know this =)
This is why we are to be careful what we promise to Abba. YHWH gave us permission to make vows and commands that when we make them, we keep them no matter what. However, YHWH did not force us to make vows, neither did He command us to kill humans for sacrifices. I’m not attacking your post brother, i’m just trying to express the context =)
As for Abraham, we know that in context YHWH was only testing him. If Abba meant for Abraham to follow through on a “human sacrifice”, then He wouldn’t have stopped him. Again, this parallel can’t be made with the incident in Judges because they are two different situations and the contexts were different as well.
That’s just what I’ve learned so far. I’m open to more discussions concerning this =)
Observer,
I have never heard or understood that human sacrifice is a requirement by YHWH of someone dying in sin. The term ‘human sacrifice’ has the connotation of someone spilling blood against their will or spilling the blood against someone else’s will.
Y’shua willingly laid down His life for all who would come to Him. He spoke of how great is the person who willingly lays down his life for his brother to protect them. The theme is not of human sacrifice.
To my understanding, the theme or lesson is about love. When we are willing to lay down our life for someone – like a father is willing to protect his family – even to the point of losing his life – or a man loves his brother that he’s willing to do anything to protect him – even lay down his life….the same is required of us in our relationship with Abba…how much do we love Abba that we are willing to lay down our life (die to self – die to this world -crucify this flesh) to follow His Way.
Isaac was a man (not a small child, as we were led to believe) when he and Abraham went to the mount – both willing to obey Abba. I believe Isaac went there willingly – of his own free will – fully aware of Torah and Abba’s Way – willing to lay his life down on the altar if it pleased Abba.
I believe Abraham knew Abba would not allow Isaac to die that day. Why? Because Abba already made the promise to Abraham that He would multiply his seed THROUGH Isaac. Abba keeps His promises. Abraham trust Abba. If Isaac were to die that day, then Abba would not have kept His promise to multiply Abraham’s seed through Isaac.
This story illustrates the righteousness of Abraham because of his willingness to obey Abba. It appears to me that Isaac was a type and shadow of Y’shua because both were willing to lay their lives down. I do not believe this was about ‘human sacrifice’. (And just for the record, I’m not inferring that you are saying this – I’m attempting to simply communicate some of my understanding)
The emphasis is that Y’shua laid His life down of HIS own will – not by force or coercion. Y’shua was not sacrificed by others.
The way you put it – it is as if the emphasis is shifted from a person dying in sin (because they refuse to turn to Him and obey) – to Abba requiring blood because they refused to turn to Him. That does not make sense to me. Otherwise, ALL who die in sin would have to die a bloody death to satisfy a blood thirsty Creator. At least that would seem the logical conclusion of that kind of requirement, to me.
It’s my understanding that those who refuse to repent – die in their sin. The consequence of sin is death (physical and spiritual). Where in Scripture does it say a human sacrifice is required as a consequence of sin?
Regarding your reference to Ezekiel 39: it’s my understanding that this is speaking of judgment and not ‘human sacrifice’ in the sense that Yah wants blood for lack of repentance. Again, it’s as if the emphasis has shifted to some bloody thirsty Creator.
Regarding His Name versus the Attributes of YHWH:
You claimed that YHWH has MANY names and then you spoke of attributes and actions.
I simply said, YHWH has ONE Name. That is what is written in MANY places in Scripture.
YHWH has many attributes.
Attributes DESCRIBE Him. But attributes are NOT names. That is all I was emphasizing. I spoke nothing of ‘actions’.
You are saying His attributes are His ‘other names’.
Chris,
I have to know one thing brother. Why do you come to this blog? I’m not asking this because I want you to leave. I care about you as a brother in the One True God of Israel. Last night I was pondering some things…and one of those things was why you never came onto the blog for several months, only to return again starting the whole routine over again.
What is bothering me in my spirit is, you seem to leave for several months only to allow new people to come onto the blog to let the “dust settle” a bit only to return again and write things on this blog making it seem like you are a victim and that us Hebrew Roots people are mean people out to get evangelicals and church people. I really hope you don’t think that of us, or of me.
I also hope i’m wrong about what I was pondering. Please tell me that you have no deceitful agenda by coming on this blog. I just need to know.
I for one, am not against any evangelical.
Here is the problem…people who have their identy in a religion get defensive when the deception within it is exposed. As you know, it can be HARD to shake off. It is as though our clothes have been ripped off when our beliefs are challenged. Chris knows about the sabbath, the feasts, etc…he does not love them, yet…we should keep him lifted up in prayer. People here love him but also get sick of the games I would imagine. I can’t speak for everyone.
Net and Scot, I agree, the point is Abba is not labeling different camps, there is One body of redeemed.
Wretch,
If you are talking to me, you need to know that I take my orders from One much higher than you so before you tell me to knock it off you might want to clear it with Him!
My words are not fallacious nor is my point broad generalizations.
The teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and all of her protesting daughters are submerged in the same doctrinal lies.
I was a part of those churches for over 40 years. I pastored 3 churches and assisted at one other before YHVH showed me the truth. I have earned my right to speak out you, Chris, Dave or anyone else will silence me!
Grow up kid. Quit ordering others around like you are some authoritative figure. Don’t let your mouth get you removed before you have had a chance to learn the truth.
David,
Did I strike a nerve? Anytime you say everyone, you are making a generalization about people. It would be like me saying that all Hebrew Roots Believers are all legalistic, which would be a generalizations. I don’t care if you were at one time working side by side with Joel Osteen. In another words just because you were in churches for 40 years as a pastor or an associate is just a diversion to the point at hand. You are wrong in your fallacious talk, point blank. I don’t want to silence you, but don’t think that when you speak like this people are going to challenge you.
I am not ordering you around. If you want to continue in your illogical delusion that is your own freedom. I am not going to let you get away with your craziness
Wretch,
LOL! I must confess, you calmed me down! I have never laughed so loud in my life. ROTFL!!!
OK, you can continue with Joel Olsteen and I will continue with Yeshua!
How can you define my talk as fallacious when your knowledge of me is an absolute “O”?
It is also obvious that your knowledge of Scripture doesn’t rank much higher.
Don’t worry about silencing me! You are not capable.
You are not going to let me get away with my craziness huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
If you only knew how many people are laughing at you now. All those on this blog who have known me for years. Go ahead! have fun!
Wretch,
I know that you think you are defending “people” but “people” aren’t being attacked, rather the sytems that keep them in slavery. A Christian IS NOT the same as the relgious activity in Christianity though at its core ALL Christianity represents a break from the truth…as does Judaism. We are not to add to or take away from Abba’s commands. Both do both!!!
All Hebrew Roots represents a break from the truth. What is your point? By the way, your attack is on people who don’t buy into your following of the law.
wretch,
Please be merciful to us and show us where we are breaking from the truth!
Ezekiel says that you are to show us the error of our ways or our blood will be on your hands!
Show us wretch! Plllllllllllleeeeeeaaaaaaassssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
Let us hear the mighty blast of your shofar.
Wretch,
not to sound like i’m “butting in on the convo”, but you said earlier, “Anytime you say everyone, you are making a generalization about people. It would be like me saying that all Hebrew Roots Believers are all legalistic, which would be a generalizations.”
and now you just said,
“All Hebrew Roots represents a break from the truth…”
Does not your comment above contradict your comment to David concerning “generalizations”? What’s up with that brother?
SOME Hebrew Roots veer from the truth like ALL religious systems. Not ALL Hebrew Roots groups are on the same page conerning Scripture.
We need to be careful not to quickly judge one another. We need to be open hearted and see both sides of the story and seek truth in love and humility. The moment we think we have all the truth we are in trouble.
I can with confidence say on this blog that NOT ONE person on this blog knows the ENTIRE truth or knows EVERYTHING about Scripture.
We need to learn from Abba, and learn from eachother. Abba is looking for souls that will be teachable in these last days. Religion says “I know it all”. That is how we know we are religious, or in a religion rather in YHWH through Yeshua.
Love you Wretch and others =)
wretch,
Your antinomianism isn’t bothering anyone but yourself. While it is true, we are sad for your ignorance, at least we have hope for you because you are ignorant. Chris knows better. He claims to be a leader of souls. He has a lot more to face.
OK Wretch,
Enough playing. I hope the teasing didn’t upset you. I’m just feeling my oats!
So, on a more serious note, why don’t you lay out your points of disagreement with the HR movement, of which I don’t necessarily claim to be a part of. (I am a Netzarim)
But, we can have some serious discussions on all these things that bother you. I will be totally honest with you and I expect the same from you. One rule! Everything in context! No proof text!
Can you do that?
Why cast pearls among swine? There is no convincing of you and there is no convincing of me. There is no discussion here. As soon as I start talking theology there will be a number of people within the Hebrew Roots Movement that will all disagree and say I am a part of the Catholic lie. You call me ignorant without even knowing me, and now you want a discussion. You are out of your mind. It isn’t out of fear that I don’t talk about this. In fact I have no fear from someone who gets brave behind a keyboard.
Wretch,
I forgive you for calling me swine.
Now, when I say you are ignorant, I am not insulting you. I am saying you lack knowledge on the subject that you are attacking. You said, “All Hebrew Roots represent a break from the truth.” That statement proves that you have very little knowledge about Hebrew Roots, or for that fact, the Truth! That is where your ignorance lies. I would be happy to teach you so that your ignorance will be removed.
But, if all you wish to do is argue, it is as you said, “there is no convincing of you.” So, from your own mouth you prove what I and others have been saying. You are only here to cause division and to make trouble. That makes you an ally of adversary. That is something that YHVH hates! Proverbs 6:16-19, “Six things YHVH hates; Seven are an abomination to Him: A haughty bearing, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A mind that hatches evil plots, Feet quick to run to evil, A false witness testifying lies, And one who incites brothers to quarrel.”
Also in Proverbs we read that “For those who do not keep Torah, even their prayers are an abomination.”
I have no motive beyond bringing you to the Truth. I know you believe you have it, as I did, but you are wrong. Someday you will come to see that. I hope it is not when you are standing before Him who you blaspheme so freely by denying His Word!
David,
please forgive me. I do not want to sound like i’m correcting you since you are an elder to me, but I think the word “Netzarim” in Hebrew is plural but “Netzari” is the singular form.
I think you meant to say “I am a Netzari”
However, WE are Netzarim
Or, in Ivrit (Hebrew) we would say “Anachnu Netzarim ve Ok’veem Yahshua HaMashiyach ve Ok’veem ha-Torah”
[We are Netzarim and we follow Yahshua the Messiah and we follow the Torah]
Just practicing my Hebrew. =) Trying really hard to learn it. It’s my passion. I can’t explain the sudden fire in my heart for learning this language. It’s easier for me than spanish haha
Woot!
Netzari,
You are correct brother. It was a typo. I caught it afterward but since we have the new format, I don’t know how to edit my errors.
Thank you for your attention to it. Never feel bad about correcting error regardless of age.
Wrong, Hebrew Roots DOES NOT represent a break from the truth though ALL Hebrew Roots folks do at times break from the truth, violate the law or sin. That makes both parties the same in Abba’s eyes from His perspective. All have sinned (violated the law) and fallen short of the glory of God.
The difference is…your camp is saying that the thing broken from (the law) was erased so as to continue living the way you want.
Everyone will follow the law to one destination or another…and he will be here soon. The Law is good, holy and just (Romans7:12). The Law is Spiritual (Romans 7:14). The Law IS truth (Psalms 119:142). I could go on but I already have a hundred times.
Seems to me like you would want that which is good, holy, just, spiritual and truth IN YOU and as much of it as possible. Not all do.
My Camp? Wow, yeah we tell people to live how they want to. I am sure there are ones out there like that, but once again this is nothing, but a fallacious generalization. Seems like I would want that which is good, holy, just, spiritual truth in me. You saying that I don’t have it? Hmmmmm
Wretch,
you said earlier, “Anytime you say everyone, you are making a generalization about people. It would be like me saying that all Hebrew Roots Believers are all legalistic, which would be a generalizations.â€
and now you just said,
“All Hebrew Roots represents a break from the truth…â€
and again to Scot,
“but once again this is nothing, but a fallacious generalization.”
Do not your comments above contradict your comment to David and Scot concerning “generalizations�
again, SOME Hebrew Roots veer from the truth like ALL religious systems. Not ALL Hebrew Roots groups are on the same page conerning Scripture.
Your comments above to Scot and David where generalizations friend. =/
Wretch,
what i’m saying is that you are accusing David and Scot of generalizing when you are generalizing by assuming all Hebrew Roots people break from the truth.
apparently you don’t understand sarcasm. Game over for you.
Wretch,
I will take it upon myself to answer that question. I know Scot will not mind.
You ask, “You saying that I don’t have it?
The answer is NO! Scot, nor I, nor any one of us are NOT saying that. IT is YOU who are saying that! When you reject Torah as the Will of Eloheim, you are saying that you do not have “That” in you. How can you possess it and utterly reject it? There is only one way I know. You are “ignorant” (there’s that word again) of just how much Torah there is already in you. Do you murder? Do you commit adultry? (I mean the physical kind. All who follow false doctrine commits spiritual adultry) I believe that’s enough to make my point. You should be able to figure it out from there.
We need to get back to the Trinity dialogue guys…
I feel like i’m floating in mid air with neither ground or flight concerning the “trinity”. Personally, i’m convinced (unless someone can logically explain to me this view) that there is no “trinity”. The other part of the puzzle now is learning what the Scripture really says concerning this topic lol.. it’s a toughy..
What I got so far from studying is this:
-YHWH IS THE FATHER
-YHWH’s WORD is divine and eternal.
-the WORD was perfectly filled in Yahshua and because of His sinlessness He is different from us humanly speaking.
-Yahshua is under the Father according to 1Cor.
-Yahshua cannot be under the Father at the same time BE the Father…
-Yahshua will give up the Kingdom to the FATHER.
-Yahshua is connected to YHWH through the Holy Spirit, the same way we can be connected to Him.
I think most of the confusion stems from the concept that the Holy Spirit didn’t dwell in man but only came upon man in the “Old Testament” but then did so in the “New Testament”.
The Scriptures prove the Holy Spirit being IN and UPON people in the Tanakh as well as in the Brit’ Chadashah. (“NT”)
I’m still awaiting to see more discussion on this matter.
Can you logically explain that there is no trinity? then I will believe you.
Wretch,
Are we now required to prove His Word by logic, so called?”
Isn’t the Word of Eloheim good enough for you?
How about, “Hear O Isra’el, YHVH Eloheim, YHVH echad.”
Can you explain from the Word of Eloheim, (not logic or constantinian doctrine) how “echad” can be three separate persons?
Good luck! Many have tried and all have failed.
Wretch,
that’s what we have all been trying to do. Yes, from what we have learned in Scripture, we CAN express the flaw of Trinity. Simple question, how can a son be a father and a son at the same time when still in his own father’s household UNDER his father’s rule and authority?
Typical dreamy confusion…put forward a negative\scriptural deficit and ask someone to argue a negative…illogical…
Is it a negative? Many in “my camp” would say that it is a scriptural surplus. What say you?
If it is a surplus, surely there would be a verse that supports it. There are none, two were added so that it would appear as such. Sad thing is…that is well known now and even admitted by the folks that did it.
Go ahead, stand on the tree stump and say it was never there. One more repeat of what you have been shown is false and you will be removed.
Your participation here is combative and terribly ill-informed. Enough.
What were the two verses added into Scripture again guys? I forget… I’ve been searching for evidence on that fact but haven’t had the time to dive deep into it…YET. =)
Another clue America is the beast .Chronological order After Obama came in rev13;1 the beast that rises from the grains of sand in the sea and is as a leopard.which means black and white spotted.or mixed.His grandmother was white.rev 13;3 And I saw one of his heads wounded to death and his deadly wound healed.and all the world wondered after the beast.America just had an American congresswoman that was shot in the head and doctors said it was a miracle she lived and she is a God fearin woman and she is congresswoman gifford.Which Congress has more power than the president accept for the control of military.So congress is a head above the president but both still represent the beast.Then the 4th beast comes and can call fire down from heaven and has the power of the first beast before him rev 13;13,14 says as if it were some miracle.and they will say who can make war with the beast.Now the military showed on national tv of how the new satelite imagry weapons work.They showed buildigs being blown up from satelit imagry first it showed the buildings with an x marks the spot then America pushes a button and boom the satelite shows the building blowing up.All americans watched this example because the military aired it on national tv
So that is what we do, remove people that we don’t like. I say remove me then, buster. There are more and more like me out there.
Wretch, you shouldn’t talk like that. Nobody is forcing you to come on this blog. If you enjoy our conversation, you have to show respect. Removing people from posting is the last measure or step taken by the administration to keep a respectful and logical blogging. “There are more and more like me out there”…we know that, because we have been there. For the bible is telling us that the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction (no laws, you can sin how much you want, Torah is obsolete. That is what you want ? ) .
Just read Matthew 7 : 13-14
“There are more and more like me out there”
lol…sorry, but that reminds me of what villins say in movies before they are defeated… “If you kill me, more like me will arise!” hehehe
Unless your obi-wan kenobi,
“Strike me down, and I will be more powerful than you will ever imagine”
Lol.. sorry guys. I couldn’t help it.
@Netzari
i could not help it to say that i really love/like that comment you just made it ,made me laugh thanks Brother thats awesome i like your humour we need more people like you in this world or we will go all mad. may Yahweh bless you and keep you
Another Clue America is the beast.Chronological order after Obama came which is the ceast out of the grains of the sands of the sea of hawaii 13:3 and I saw one of his heads wounded to death and his deadly wound healed.and all the world wondered after the beast.America just had an American congresswoman that was shot in the head and doctors said it was a miracle she live and she is a God fearin woman.Now congress is over the president so this woman was over Obamas head and she is well and live and she is congresswoman Gifford.Then the 4th beast comes and can call fire down from heaven.and has the power of the first beast before him rev 13;13 and 14 says as if it were some miracle.America has this technology called star wars they dont even need plane they can blow up anytihg and see anybody thru satilite imagry
And her husband is a famous astronaut
Just like prophsy says u WILL NOT BELIEVE
@joseph
i absoulatly agree with you and could not have said it better myself.
only for a season…
Why did Joseph keep Benjamin and send his other brothers back?
Cause He knew his dad had already blamed them for the loss of one of his most favrit by his favrit wife now they manged to lose his other favrt son by his favrt wife.Joseph knew the wrath from the Father that they would have to face.
so if you know now who the beast is you would know that the two witnesses and the Bible says witnesses and not people or prophets tou would know that the prophesy has been fullfilled funny the way the Lord uses the simple tings to confound the wise and all of you are just too wise now arent you
@scotty-taylor A lot of what follows I think you know already, but bears repeating as Peter “reminds” – 2 Pet 3, Jude 1:5 in the Word.
“Powerful” nations and the people that make them up see and interpret things from that point of veiw and reference. Meaning, “we are the center of the world and most important because we are the most powerful and influential . . . ” etc. All of the historically “powerful” nations of the past – Egypt, Babylon, Medes/Perians, Greece, Rome have been “it” they were the “civilized” culture and that everything was filtered through that mindset and their national ”pride”.
You can see the same attitude in mainstream Christianity with mindsets of replacement theology and Grecco/Roman (pagan) practices and theology that it holds to. It doesn’t see YHWH’s plan and purposes in respects ot Israel – the people, land and kingdom. They strip Yeshua from His People, the culture, the context (historical and textural) and “westernize” Him along with the pagan traditions and He becomes Jesus (no longer Hebrew). It is no longer Hebrew. Hebrew, meaning that which YHWH created, His culture, His Ways, – not man made culture and religion.
When these two mindsets – the one of inflated “national pride” and the one of stripping the context of what/and why of YHWH’s “Hebrew” (His ways) plan and purpose you get your point of view. A viewpoint and mindset that America is the focus of prophecy and is center stage of YHWH’s covenant plan.
YHWH’s covenant was made with Abraham, the first Hebrew. YHWH choose Abraham to work HIS covenant plan through and He choose a PLACE – Israel to place His Name, His Throne. The verses below, most of which are the prophecies, tell of this. YHWH’s covenant plan centers around the place – Israel, His people – Israel (covenant believers from “whomsoever ever will come” to Him through Yeshua and obey His Torah), and and His kingdom – Israel.
It has never been replaced. Your interpretation of prophecy replaces Israel – the land, people, kingdom – with America, it’s land, people and “kingdom” (government). Your interpretation says that YHWH’s focus is no longer His promise to Abraham but is now to America and it’s people and the Christian church (reference to your comment of many Jesus followers in America) And I am NOT saying that NO ONE in mainstream Christianity is not one of His People, YHWH makes that judgment. You are trying to force YHWH’s covenant with Abraham to fit your American centric view.
YHWH tells us who the “players” (prophetic peoples, nations in relationship to Israel) in His plan are. He starts by telling us in Genesis who they are and they are the same all the way through their generations and all the way through Rev. You can trace the “related” people and their generations quite easily. He is Israel centric, everything revolves around it. His throne is not in America or Rome, nor has it been moved there. His covenant plan and promises are to/about Israel.
He makes the nations play their part in His covenant plan and as above, the parts have been assigned in the beginning. He states in His prophecies very clearly and specifically about people and places. When He is specific, it is for a specific reason and He is telling us specifically who and where. He prophesied the very specific empires before they were empires. If America was the focus of prophecy He would have been just as specific in naming it. He wasn’t. It isn’t where He placed His Name, His Throne/Temple, His land. It isn’t the land He promised His People, it isn’t the place Yeshua will set His feet when He returns. All of those places are, Israel. Everyone will go up Jerusalem, not America.
America has it’s place in history and YHWH’s plan as one of the many nations, just not the one you are trying to force it to be. It is just one of the nations in YHWH’s Hand. As powerful as you think it is, it is nothing and can come to and end just like the others. I am an American, but I know this is not my home.
The Word of YHWH is so often interpreted through current eyes, the understanding, viewpoints, opinions, values, beliefs of the current culture of the time. Instead of the correct way of interpretation of the cultural context of the time it was given/written. That is how replacement theology started and is perpetuated.
Words and their meanings change over time in different cultures. It isn’t what it means to us today, it is what did/does it mean when YHWH gave it? What were the people who wrote it mean by a certain phrase or words, that may have a totally opposite meaning today? What “food” was in Yeshua’s time was understood to mean that which was clean. Anything else was not “food”. Today food is anything that you eat and is so exemplified by today’s society in shows such as “Bizzare Foods”. How did the understanding of what “food” is get lost? Though the passage of time, the separation of the Body from it’s Source/root, rebellion, lost knowledge of what it was. Without the correct understanding of context you can get way off in your interpretation.
It only took reading His Word front to back a few times to see that what we were taught in “church” wasn’t correct and after reading it through several more years that we saw/see His plan as HE sees it – Israel. Do we know it all, NO!! Were we off track at one time (still are at times), YES!! Only keeping our focus on HIM can we stay on the narrow path of His Truth.
I like what Bill Cloud said as a warning about prophetic interpretation. That we can get so focused on seeing it a certain way, waiting and wanting it to happen that way that we can miss what He is DOING. Our focus can be so off that we will miss Him DOING IT! You can see that happening in the Word to many, I do not want it to happen to me, I do not want to be a foolish virgin and miss the Bridegroom. I am a watchman (woman) and will watch and see and await His coming. I will watch for the signs and seek Him and serve Him.
I do not take anyone’s interpretation as absolute truth. I do know that those that diligently seek Him and listen to the Ruach HaChodesh will find Him as He says in His Word. Any group of believers who follow Torah and diligently seek Him will be on the same page for the most part. He will correct error in anyone who wants to know the Truth, His Truth.
We never stop learning it unless we choose to. In a group like this we can discuss with the Word as our Source for Truth. He will make it clear as to our level of understanding and learning. So we must always be open for correction, always rightly divide the Word, seek His Ways not ours. Knowledge puffs up, pride has no place, I have to continually remember that one.
I believe those here honestly wish to seek HIS Truth, even if we sometimes take a side trip into bloated knowledge and pride. I have seen several be quick to ask forgiveness and be given it, a sure sign of humbleness and fruit of the spirit. Let’s all seek Him where He may be found and be that light that shows Yeshua’s love and grace to the world, and not shine it on ourselves.
Scripture references:
1 Kings 5:5
I intend, therefore, to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God, as the LORD told my father David, when he said, ‘Your son whom I will put on the throne in your place will build the temple for my Name.’
• Nehemiah 1:9 NIV
but if you return to me and obey my commands, then even if your exiled people are at the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for my Name.’
• Ezekiel 43:7 NIV
He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.
• Isaiah 11:9 NIV
They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.
• Isaiah 56:7 NIV
these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
• Isaiah 57:13 NIV
When you cry out for help, let your collection [of idols] save you! The wind will carry all of them off, a mere breath will blow them away. But the man who makes me his refuge will inherit the land and possess my holy mountain.”
• Isaiah 65:11 NIV
“But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny,
• Isaiah 65:25 NIV
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD
• Isaiah 66:20 NIV
And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD–on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels,” says the LORD. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels
• Ezekiel 20:40 NIV
For on my holy mountain, the high mountain of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD, there in the land the entire house of Israel will serve me, and there I will accept them. There I will require your offerings and your choice gifts, along with all your holy sacrifices.
@ Sonya Isaiah 49;6 and he said,It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,and to restore the preserved of Israel;I will also give the a light to the gentiles,that thoy mayest be my salvation to the end of the earth
What gentile nation protcts the reserved of Israel?
Jeremiah 7;25 Since the days youre fathers came fourth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have sent unto you all my servants the prophets,daily rising up early and sending them
Now understand this.Another clue America is the beast.Chronological order after Obama came which is an anti christ which is the beast out if the grains of sand of the sea and is as a leopard or black and white spotted or “mixed”(his grandmother was white) rev 13;3 and I saw one of his heads wounded to death and his deadly wound healed.Now one of Obamas heads was just shot in the head and lived as if it were some miracle but congresswoman Gifford is a Godfearin woman and she lived and all the world wondered after the beast.The whole world saw this and was updated everyday on her condition.and we all know that congress in America is head over the president with exeption to the military.The president can go to war and utilize the military without the approval of congress but the president cant get any bills passed unless they first are approved by congress so this is a head of Obama and America.then the 4th beast come and can call fire down from heaven and has the power of the first beast before him.REV 13;13and14 says as if it were some miracle.And America has shown this on national tv they can blow up anyone in the world and see it happen and see that they have hit their targets thru sattellite imagry.They can even see people runnin out of the area droppin and rollin on fire and then they push the button again so that all of theur primary targets are destroyed”called the star wars program”
scotty,
That is about the craziest thing I have ever read on this blog! satan has blinded your eyes and is filling your head with total nonsense. He is using you as a false teacher to try and turn peoples eyes away from the truth. Gifford in not one of Obama’s heads! He only has one and I don’t dare say where it is.
You need to try the spirits you claim are leading you in this error.
David I meant that by wat I see like I said forgive me for Im not good with words at all didnt really mean my prophesies they are all Gods And like I said Im just tryin to get this out thyere the best I can but it seens that the adversary is messin with what i mean and how i word it and im sorry for that Im just tryi9n my best
Scotty, brother – the adversary is messing with more than your spelling and how you word things. PLEASE SEEK YAHUWAH. We are brothers and sisters who love you – and are begging you to TURN TO HIM to test all these things you are proclaiming. The adversary is subtle, clever, crafty and cunning and comes as an angel of light when he is out to deceive, kill, steal and destroy. This is serious — not a game. Forgive me if my words sounds harsh, but OTHER people read this blog and I fear some of Abba’s young lambs will be misled into following a man’s words, instead of seeking Him on their faces as WE ALL SHOULD BE DOING SO WE ARE NOT LED ASTRAY.
Scotty-Taylor
i look at israel like this so here gos’
the whole world is israel and in israel there are 196 states but the capital is the State of Yisra’el that small stripe of land in the middle east but the heart of that capital is Yerushalayim so the world is Yisra’el so we are as David said grafted into and are the part of the commonwealth of Yisra’el and we will be brought back into the capital state when Messiah Returns.
yeshuamessiah,
The whole world is NOT Israel.
Israel are those among the nations who “keep the commandments of Eloheim and have the testimony of Yeshua HaMashiach.” “Those who have washed their garments and made them white in the Blood of the Lamb.”
Only those are grafted into the Olive Tree, Israel.
I believe you know this already but your comment was unclear.
scotty,
Sonya is correct. You would do well to take heed to what she is saying.
Your question, “What gentile nation protcts the reserved of Israel? Which you are implying that America is the protector of Israel, Shows just how wrong you are!
You are obviously thinking of Israel as that little piece of land in the Middle East. That is NOT Israel, that is the LAND given to Israel!
Israel is a people. They are the ones in Covenant with YHVH/Yeshua! They are the “grafted in” of Romans 11. They are found throughout the world. They will someday be returned to that Land but they are Israel, not the land.
scotty, I admire your zeal for learning but you are being led down the wrong path by the adversary. I pray your eyes will soon be opened.
@David
yes i did know that already but sorry for not explaining it properly i have always struggled on explaining things that has always being my downfall so sorry David but i’m working on it just needs a little bit of practice. lols. but thank you for clarifying it for me.
@David
and shalom Elder Brother with lots of love and respect.
Amein Sister Sonya!
scotty-taylor is definitely seeing things from an American-centric view and must learn to test all things and test the spirits behind what he thinks is correct interpretation. Hard words, but true.
Scotty – brother, test the spirits. Humble yourself before Yahuwah and test it all through Him. I posted the other day -but you took it as a cautionary rebuke toward brethren other than yourself. It was meant for you. Because I love my Father and felt moved to share that with you. Go re-read that post and test it through Him to see if I spoke rightly to you or not. I encourage you – I beg you – exhort you to test what you are preaching here, through Him. I already know what you hold to is not of my Father and I fear for you. Please ask Him. Shalom.
If you’re still around Wretch, the scriptural evidence you are looking for, which is quite logical, is related to what “spirit” is. All living things, by definition, must have a spirit–because spirit (breath in humans) is what imparts life. Even the Father, a spirit being with a spirit body, must have a spirit within Him that accounts for His living existence. God IS spirit. But…and this is the clincher, Wretch…if the Father, who is holy, has a spirit, then obviously His spirit must be holy spirit–or rather, HOLY SPIRIT. If the Father’s spirit is Holy Spirit, it becomes utterly redundant, unnecessary, and false to insist that there is a third being who is called the Holy Spirit.
This leads us to conclude what ought to be obvious to all…the Holy Spirit is nothing less (and also nothing more) than THE FATHER’S OWN SPIRIT.
Threre’s also a great deal more on this subject that I taught to a couple of different congregations the past Atonement dealing with the Oneness of YHWH. Once the full understanding of just how One YHWH is becomes clear, attempts to personify the Holy Spirit as a third hypostasis (person) can readily be seen as silly and superfluous.
A light bulb just went on for the first time…
“Holy Spirit”…. that just means SET APART Spirit… Torah (The WORD) is Set apart…so…………if that SET APART spirit is placed in US, that makes US set apart too! WOW! And that SAME spirit is what was perfectly IN Yahshua the MAN…. WOW…. Oh my goodness.. I almost got it!
Set Apart Spirit = Abba because Abba IS Spirit and Abba is SET APART which means that the Spirit which is SET APART is none other than Abba.
So the Set Apart Spirit could be considered the heart of Abba? Relationship personified? If Spirit = Relationship (love of Abba which connects Him and Yahshua together) that means that through Yashua, that same relationship/Spirit connects US to Abba…. hmmm… Almost there guys… keep the posts coming. I need more!
That almost solves the Holy Spirit part for me. Now, for the concept of Yahshua….was He just a man FILLED with the Set Apart Spirit of Abba? Was he a “God-man”? Was He a man born sinless (second adam) in whom that Set Apart Spirit was IN?
I believe that the same Spirit in Yahshua was in the Prophets of old. The only difference between the Prophets and Yahshua was that Yahshua was sinless which qualifies Him to be our Messiah. Am I getting this right? I have much to unlearn still lol
Yes, you are right…and on that same note…ALL those who do not have the set apart\holy spirit will eventually try to be EQUAL having not been SET APART as a son that follows his lead.
Yes, equal as in trying to be gods apart from relationship. Just like what the people are doing in the technocalypse post.
http://profoundprophecy.com/2010/12/technocalypse-transhumanism-and-singularity/comment-page-1/#comment-44257
Guys,
I’m having a hard time with this verse because it makes it seem like the Holy Spirit is another entity…
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
If the Holy Spirit is the Father’s own spirit (which I believe it is) then why does Yahshua say that this Holy Spirit does not speak of HIMSELF but shall testify of Yahshua??? So the Holy Spirit has His Own will and is another “person”? It sounds that way in John 16:13.
Any ideas guys?
Good question, brother! The pronouns make it hard for me to understand exactly what’s being said. ‘He’ appears so many times in those few verses!
Yeah this is one of those verses that I always hear from people when they wanna talk trinity. Dont know if this will help much but I’ve personally never really felt affected by those kinds of passages simply because yeah the Holy Spirit is reffered to as “He” but wisdom is also referred to as “she.” We wouldnt go saying that Wisdom is an actual Lady…
Exactly, I was gonna say the same thing… there are NUMEROUS examples in scripture where abstract things or even objects are personified, like “wisdom” and others… that does NOT make them actual “persons”. But, then there are people who literally believe wisdom is a person, YHVH has a person in the place of His right arm, etc. (the person of Yeshua)…
ps. spirit is actually a “she” (feminine) in Hebrew (breath/spirit is feminine, like in many others languages, but has ZERO to do with the sex of a supposed person) like “wisdom”…lol… people (even some hebrew roots folks) who follow this erroneous kind of thinking, actually believe that God had kids with His wife the holy spirit which is not far from the pagan religions of the world that teach about mother earth, queen of heaven… They interpret “God made them after the image of God, male and female” (paraphrase) as meaning that God is also male and female (holy spirit) and they had a son Jesus (which they call the 3rd person of the trinity)… crazy
Hi all. In Monte Judah’s weekly Torah teaching this week (VaYechi) he speaks directly to this issue. Well worth listening to. You can find it at Lion and Lamb Ministries. You’ll need to register (free) to be able to listen and the audio stream has their whole service (which in this case went for about 2 1/2 hours). Some may not necessarily like what Monte has to say on this but I respect him as a Torah teacher and as far as I can confirm everything he says on this topic is based directly on scripture (specifically on Torah principles).
I personally cannot listen to Monte Judah. There’s something about his spirit and teachings (just like Michael Rood). I’m sure he is a brother and teaches some truth, but also blatant errors, like “prince charles antichrist”, adopted child can be disowned, but not the native born (“jewish supremacy”?), book of Hebrews should be thrown out, etc. even after repeatedly told the truth.
Hey Larry,
I am curious about you saying “there’s something about his spirit and teachings (just like Michael Rood)….” What do you see in Rood’s spirit and teachings?
Just curious
I’m not saying he has an evil spirit or anything like that, I believe him to be a brother… it’s just something in the delivery of the message that I don’t always like… sorry I can’t be more precise.
Larry – I think you’ve got it backwards – it is the adopted child than cannot be disinherited (and gets the same inheritance as the first-born), which is good news for us as we are all adopted into the family of Abraham and therefore we are all counted as the first-born of Israel (and it was the first-born of Israel who were redeemed by the blood of the Passover Lamb).
I agree that the “Prince Charles Antichrist” teaching that Monte has espoused is wrong, but he has always stressed that it is only his opinion; he does not categorically say that it is the case.
I also disagree with him on the book of Hebrews but he is entitled to his opinion. I’m closer to Rico Cortes’ interpretation of Hebrews than Monte’s.
Nevertheless, like I said, I respect him as a Torah teacher and have learned much from him. He has a way of making the Torah applicable to our lives (physical and spiritual) today that few others have managed. Even better, my wife (who is Romanian and so English is not her first language) can understand him and has also learned much from him, which is a real blessing as she often has difficulty following some others.
Monte is in no way teaching “Jewish Supremacy”; in fact, if you listen to this week’s Torah teaching as I suggested, you’ll find exactly the opposite – he always speaks against that very error (even as a Jew himself).
I don’t agree with him 100% of the time, nor do I agree with Jim Staley, Michael Rood, Joe Dumond or even Scot Dryer 100% of the time (sorry, Scot
). Heck, I don’t even agree with myself sometimes 
. The golden rule is, “test all things against scripture”. If it lines up with scripture, great. If not, leave it and move on. Just don’t “throw the baby out with the bath water”. None of us are perfect, none of us have all the answers. To quote the old Jewish adage, “when Messiah comes He will interpret all things.” In the meantime, feel free to agree to disagree 
.
My comment was not to be taken as criticism/judgment, but as a personal opinion/feeling, although I have to speak out against error. I know what the scriptures teach, but a friend of mine told me Monte teaches that, I will have to verify it again… maybe he got it backwards, in any case, both the native born AND adopted CAN and some WILL be disinherited/disowned/cut off if they are not grafted in and/or don’t continue in truth.
I didn’t say he teaches jewish supremacy, I put a question mark there, because I don’t know. Even though he says he’s jewish and almost always mentions that and talks about jewish this and jewish that (which by the way as I’m sure you know it doesn’t always mean “biblical”), I just get a funny feeling…that’s all, my personal opinion… we used to go to a “messianic synagogue” where although theoretically gentiles are brothers and sisters, practically they are 2nd class citizens, very sad and shameful… it was one of the many reasons we left.
You said “I don’t agree with him 100% of the time, nor do I agree with Jim Staley, Michael Rood, Joe Dumond or even Scot Dryer 100% of the time (sorry, Scot
). Heck, I don’t even agree with myself sometimes 
. The golden rule is, “test all things against scriptureâ€. If it lines up with scripture, great. If not, leave it and move on. Just don’t “throw the baby out with the bath waterâ€. None of us are perfect, none of us have all the answers.”
I agree, although my comment was not about this. Sadly, sometimes there is a point when even teachers have to be called out. I know others agree with me and I know some teachers/teachings have been called out and I have to say that I have been watching some of them and will continue to do so and speak out against let’s say bad stuff. Not everything is rosy within the restoration movement, in fact many things are already looking like those we criticize in christianity. There is hope, the tribulation/judgment will take care of some of these things and in the end Yeshua will restore all things.
You said “when Messiah comes He will interpret all things.†Now I know I don’t have to tell you He already came and did interpret things (and He will do it again)…
and gave us the holy spirit to teach us all things.
I just feel I have to say this again y’all, please, do NOT take my previous comments about the 2 teachers like I consider them bad people, that is NOT what I meant… I believe they are brothers and have good intentions.
Quite right, Larry. We’re reading from the same page (mostly)
. Monte spoke out very strongly against just the sort of attitude that you encountered in the synagogue that you mentioned. “There are no second class citizens in the kingdom!” amongst other things, all based on the prophecies that Jacob spoke over his sons and grandsons (whom he adopted as sons) before he died.
I haven’t listened to all of his stuff… I only speak of what I know or what I’ve heard. I know all these things Rodney, thanks bro. Again, this wasn’t the purpose of my comments… I wasn’t arguing doctrine. The only and entire point of my comments was that there are problems within the restoration movement that are way beyond just “agreeing to disagree” which by the way I believe is an expression (and/or the way it’s applied by many) that comes from political correctness/democracy/greek thinking. There is still much of it within the movement, the way we study, the way we discuss and argue.
PS. I sent you a short email a few weeks ago, did it get lost in your bulk/junk folder maybe?
Larry,
you said:
“lol… people (even some hebrew roots folks) who follow this erroneous kind of thinking, actually believe that God had kids with His wife the holy spirit”
lol… wow… that is so kabbalistic and mystic…
Good points about the pronouns.
1Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
this doesn’t mean that man’s spirit (or God’s spirit) is a person and/or separate from the man, but your spirit knows about you, same with God’s spirit… it is a breath/wind that doesn’t blow from wherever it pleases (randomly), doesn’t speak of itself, but whatever he/she hears from God, tells the things of God… not complicated
Larry,
Another light bulb ALMOST turned on in my brain.
Please be patient with me here
So what your saying is, my spirit in me knows the deeps things about me since my spirit is the real me and not my flesh so to speak. Since we are all spiritual beings correct? So now other person can know the depths of my heart except my spirit within me since it IS me right?
So with that logic, no man can know the depths of Abba’s heart except His own Spirit since He is Spirit. Therefore, in order for US to ever know anything about Abba’s heart, we have to have His Spirit IN US to tell US the depths of HIS heart. Correct?
Another thing that really bothers me is that I was raised believing that we ALL are born spiritually dead and that we only have a soul and body but without Jesus we have no spirit because we are not “born again”. So prior to salvation we are “walking dead” people. This concept has always bothered me.
There are also some Messianic congregations that teach against the concept of original sin. I don’t know about aht one either… ugh. Most of the confusion really stems off of trinitarianism…
hey, my truck is a lady, even though she looks mean, she is nice…
Netz,
God’s Spirit is God (and not a different/3rd person), because God is Spirit.
I believe this too, but the pronouns in our english are confusing… I hate english more and more everytime I study Scripture in depth and take it back to it’s Hebrew context.. ugh.
I love English (I love languages period), but I also have to say that we mess up a lot of things (especially in bible study) because in English objects, abstract things, even animals are “it”, they don’t have gender, or are of “neuter gender”… how insane and unbiblical is that when God only created 2 genders, male and female, and because of this ALL words in Hebrew are of either masculine or feminine gender. There is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding because of this. It is one of the reasons many (even within hebrew roots) believe the holy spirit is a female person, just because the gender of the word is feminine. Now, I don’t want to get in detail on why the word “spirit” (ruach in Hebrew) and “widsom” for that matter are feminine and not masculine and what can be drawn from this, but I know it does NOT mean the spirit (or any spirit) is a female person. In my mother’s tongue, “breath” is also feminine, even “table”, but I have never thought and would never think of them as persons with female genitalia…lol… crazy. In English, this is kind of hard to understand.
Lol… thanks brother. Great points.
When you put it that way, it does sound quite absurd lol.
Larry, one more thing:
The Spirit = YHWH right?
So why would Yahshua say the Spirit doesn’t testify of Himself but of the Father. That’s like saying, “The Father doesn’t testify of Himself, but of the Father.” What Yahshua said in that verse sounds reduntant if the Spirit is YHWH.
Perhaps someone corrupted the words in that passage to fit trinitarianism at some point in history?
ok, lemme put it this way… my mind(spirit) knows my things, same with God’s mind(spirit) knows His things… the mind is NOT a person and/or different from the person… my mind is me, is who I am, what I think, etc… the mind doesn’t speak randomly or from itself or from others, but from you… I am losing my patience brother Netz, NOO… j/k… lol
don’t forget in Hebrew it’s “herself”… I would suggest you take it as “itself” since you are having a hard time understanding
Netz,
I sent you a short email a while back… just wondering if it got in your bulk/junk folder or what.
Isaiah 11:2 speaks of the 7 Spirits of God, all 7 of which were to dwell in Messiah:
Isa 11:1-2 ESV – 1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit. 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
The Spirit of YHVH
The Spirit of Wisdom
The Spirit of Understanding
The Spirit of Counsel
The Spirit of Might
The Spirit of Knowledge
The Spirit of the Fear of YHVH
Solomon was given not only the Spirit of Might and the Spirit of Counsel (common to kings) but also the Spirit of Wisdom.
The wise usually have the Spirit of Wisdom and the Spirit of Understanding.
Prophets usually have the Spirit of Knowledge and the Spirit of the Fear of YHVH.
It is my view that all 7 are encompassed by the term “Ruach HaKodesh” (which puts paid to the trinity right there).
According to Dr Holisa Alewine (“The Creation Gospel”, Olive Branch Ministries) the 7 Spirits of God were each seen working on a different day of creation, each one corresponds to a branch of the menorah, that each one corresponds to one of the Feasts of YHVH and also to one of the 7 churches in Revelation. It is in itself a fascinating study.
Great points about the 7 spirits… I don’t know about Holisa Alewine though, there is a lot of mysticism Jewish and what not, even in hebrew roots circles.
Larry,
Study what Hollisa writes before rejecting her. She can teach you a thing.
Rodney,
thanks for the insight. You listed some examples of what spiritual gifts line up with what concerning the 7 Spirits of YHWH. Is there more? I would like to know what goes with what
More study for you, Net
. I wasn’t speaking about “spiritual gifts” in the “Corinthians” sense of the word, but rather as men appointed to or for specific roles. Kings, Priests, wise men, counsellors, prophets are specific roles that God appoints men to, and He gives them gifts (or manifestations of the Spirit) to equip them for those roles.
King Solomon, for example, as King was blessed with the Spirit of Might and the Spirit of Counsel, but asked for wisdom and as a result also received the Spirit of Wisdom, hence he was a King like no other before or after him, save Messiah himself on whom rest all 7 Spirits of God.
ASCII art won’t work unless I can figure out how to force the font to fixed width but a table might be useful; if you imagine each column as one of the lamps on the menorah you’ll get the picture – Wisdom and the Fear of YHVH are on opposite ends of the same branch (“The fear of YHVH is the beginning of Wisdom), Understanding and Knowledge go together and Might and Counsel are on the third branch. The Spirit of YHVH is the central “trunk” with the Shumash – the servant candle – right in the middle.
Day 1 – Separation of light from darkness – Wisdom, Passover
Day 2 – Separation of waters above from waters below – Understanding, Unleavened Bread
Day 3 – Gathering waters together, dry land, Herbs, trees, fruit, seeds – Counsel, Firstfruits
Day 4 – Sun, Moon, Stars, Appointed Times – Spirit of YHVH, Pentecost.
Day 5 – Fish, Birds – Might/Power, Trumpets
Day 6 – Animals and Man – relationship between Adam and Eve – Knowledge, Yom Kippur
Day 7 – Shabbat – Reverence for YHVH (KJV: Fear of YHVH), Rest, Tabernacles.
An exercise for the reader – look up the messages to the 7 churches in Revelation – check out the meanings of their names and read the messages and see how they relate to the 7 Feasts of YHVH and the 7 Spirits of YHVH.
Nice bro
I would say that the 7 spirits are 7 breaths/attributes of the one spirit of God, not separate from the spirit like in your table.
That is another valid way of viewing it, Larry. What we learn from studying Torah is this;
God always manifests and describes himself in plural form.
God specifically says that He is to be treated as a unified One, and that we are not to partition or divide Him up (He is not “three separate yet co-equal persons”).
God is not necessarily limited to “three”, although that is the most common description and manifestation, yet as we have seen we also have the description of the seven Spirits of YHVH (which, as you say, could also be seen as seven aspects or manifestations of the one Spirit).
God is Truth – Truth requires the witness of two or three, therefore God cannot be “One and Only One” as stated in the first tenet of Judaism, because the witness of “One and Only One” is insufficient to establish Truth. Messiah himself said so. “If I alone testify of myself, it isn’t true” (paraphrase).
Of the three men that appeared to Abraham, why did 2 go down to Sodom and Gomorrah? Because to pronounce judgement, the testimony of 2 witnesses is required. I could give other examples but it probably isn’t necessary.
The patterns are clear right throughout Scripture but they’re established in Torah. We can’t build our understanding of God on any other foundation. He established it “In the beginning” and that’s where we have to begin (and that’s why the church has things so screwed up, because they threw out “In the beginning…” and started with “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ…”
Rodney,
Okay, here’s what I see in scripture… does God need 2 witnesses, do angels need them? No, it’s just humans who need 2 or more witnesses. I believe this is shown in this passage,
John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
John 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
but then because humans need 2 witnesses, He continues,
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
You said “God always manifests and describes himself in plural form. God specifically says that He is to be treated as a unified One, and that we are not to partition or divide Him up (He is not “three separate yet co-equal personsâ€)…God is not necessarily limited to “threeâ€, although that is the most common description and manifestation”
That is simply NOT true… I am pretty sure you know that the plural form in Hebrew is often used to describe greatness… for example in Hebrew you can call one king, kings (plural), to show your respect, your admiration, how great he is, how many great attributes (plural) he has, yet he is just one person. Same with the words elohim, malakim, etc. So, God is NOT a “compound unity”, “unified one”, etc., He is simply ONE, and He is Spirit. He is though echad/one/in unity with those who love and obey Him.
Another problem we have, borrowed from Judaism, that Torah supposedly is the first 5 books… not entirely correct… I’m sure you know, Torah means teachings and instructions and to hit the mark. It can be found throughout the entire canon and also outside of it. Yeshua calls even the Psalms Torah… isn’t it written in your Law ye are gods?( paraphrase) So, back to the first 5 books, there is A LOT of Torah in them, but NOT all of it.
Another thing I have a problem with is the teaching that the first occurrence of a word in scripture, defines that word… in general, this is ok, but it’s NOT always and/or completely correct. Just one example, the word “star” or “light”… it first occurs in Genesis 1, you know what it means… much later we find out that it can also refer to angels, kings, judges, prophets, holy people, etc. I was talking about this to some HR folks and they would NOT accept these meanings of the word, why, they told me, because Brad Scott says that the first occurrence of the word defines the word. I could go on about many other errors, but I simply don’t have the time right now…one more thing though, I believe that before we can study Judaism (and other religions), we need to have a strong foundation in the Word, otherwise we may think we see truth in places where there’s none…shalom
Wow. That is sweet. Cut and paste!
Hey Rodney,
Been studying Hollisa Alewine?
Yes – some time ago. I have the DVD’s of the Creation Gospel presentation that she did at the Chicago ResTorahtion conference in 2008, as well as the 3 workbooks that have a lot more detail. Well worth reading.
Brothers and sisters, my family really needs your prayers right now. My dad is fighting the scriptures with all his might he is just not willing to accept that we are still expected to keep the Law. He’s constantly yelling,cursing, and starting arguments over it. I havent even brought it up anymore because it never ends well, in fact I feel uneasy even being around him since he’s always finding something to fuss about. There is now an ever present tension in our house whenever he’s at home. We literally cannot go through a day together as a family without my mother, my sister, and I being reduced to tears. I have a lot of scars emotionally and spiritually right now…
My mom and sister still dont know a whole lot about scripture but theyve been reading, Ive been slowly trying to introduce Torah to them but now my dads always confronting them with Romans and Galatians when Im not around trying to convince them otherwise… Im really scared for him, hes wrestling with the word and hes hurting us so badly and he just cant see it.. and Im worried for my sister cause shes just 17 and I can see the confusion and the pain in her eyes I dont want the adversary trying to get in and turn her away from seeking God. We dont have any family around its just us four and we dont have anyone to fellowship with that we can go to for support. You guys are really the only people that I feel I can talk to about these things.
I love you all very much…even though Ive never met any of you in person or had many in depth talks with you, I feel yall are the closest thing to family I have apart from my homelife. You are always in my prayers. I know I dont comment as much on here as some of you, I just dont know what to say. But I really care alot about you guys and I wish I lived near more of you so we could fellowship together. Anyways I hope it doesnt look like I was looking for a pity party Im just very down right now in my spirit didnt know where else to turn
God bless you all in Yeshua’s name
Sorry to hear that bro… you and your family will be in our prayers… we love you too man, stay strong.
Bless your hearts, Bradley. I will also keep you and your family in my prayers. We face a somewhat similar situation in my home. But blessedly my husband isn’t overbearing or reducing us to tears very often. Reading about your account makes me realise things could be much worse on this note in my home. I will definitely be praying for you, and your family. I also wish we all lived closer to each other.
The enemy is trying to wear us all down. I keep hearing of people being worn down, attacked, sick, dispirited. Be encouraged and trust Yah to water the seeds you’ve planted. I’ll be praying He works in your family’s heart a hunger and thirst for Truth so acute that they seek Him like never before. That way, He will convict and convince them. You just keep seeking Him and yielding to Him and try not to get snared by the enemy, brother. Keep yielding to Him and He will love them through you brother.
Yah bless and keep you brother. Much love in Y’shua xo
Thank you guys, your compassion really means alot to me… my heart is strengthened even now reading your words. Godbless you and make your ways prosper. I will be sure to keep you in my prayers always and give thanks continually for my brothers and sisters. Much love in Yeshua
bradley,
I will pray that your father stays in the truth.
Hi Chris,
I was just going back through this post this morning looking for a comment that I remember being made some time ago, thinking it might have been here. It was not.
But interestingly enough I came across Bradley’s request for prayers and his story about his father. Since that time, (actually less then a month from the time Bradley wrote these comments here last year), Bradley and I met one another. We live an hour away from each other and now get together pretty regularly. At most, when we get together now there are about 7or 8 of us. Either Bradley (and his family) come here, or another brother and I drive there. We meet or Bible study and fellowship. It feels as though I have known Bradley my whole life, and though he and I are 20 years difference in age, I feel as close to him as anyone my age, and anyone I’ve known for that long. He’s a great kid, the kind of young man I would be VERY proud to have as a son one day, (if the LORD ever blesses me with children). He studies the word so diligently, shares his faith patiently and with much love, and definitely walks what he talks. I can tell you, you would be honored to meet him and get to know him.
I have gotten to know Bradley’s father pretty well, too, (and the only reason I don’t know him better is because he is oftentimes having to work when we have our studies/fellowship). You’ll be disappointed to learn that Bradley’s father is a man who has had his eyes opened to THE truth, (but NOT the “truth” to which you subscribe), and he is on fire for YHWH now, admittedly more than he ever could have been before when he didn’t understand our relationship to the Torah. And believe me, as a witness to this transformation that has taken place, He KNOWS the Messiah. And it appears to me he is losing much of the angst to which Bradley referred in his post above. He is a really neat brother to be around – hungry for the word. He is a great man and has two children who love him, their mother, and each other, and who all seek the LORD fervently. It’s so fun to listen to him talk about the word, because he makes connections left and right which could only be spirit-led, and sees the harmony of the word now, from Genesis through Revelation.
To what do I attribute this change in Bradley’s father? Simple – he has seen the light and realizes now that ALL scripture must be in agreement, instead of sliced and diced in the manner with which you (and those like you who still hold fast to a “the law is done away with” theology) see it.
So, the prayers of us who have been praying for Bradley’s father, those of us whose prayers are NOT abomination (Prov 28:9) – our prayers have been, and are being answered.
It is my sincere hope that YOU come to THE truth, too, and leave the errors, falsehood, and deception behind. Get on board; the train looks like it might be leaving soon.
Sincerely,
Victor
Vic, I don’t know if you’re still lurking or not, but wanted you to know, brother – that I came across your post (above) today and re-read it. It really lifted me up – and encouraged me. I won’t go into detail – but wow, it really put things into perspective. Sometimes we pray and pray and petition Abba for things and never know the results of our prayers, if we’ve been heard (like in Bradley’s situation – he is far off from me – across the pond so to speak and we don’t know each other)…so it s VERY encouraging to be shown and reminded that the prayers of the righteous availeth much. Sometimes I forget I’m one of the righteous in Messiah (through Him – because of Him…not of myself!) and that when I approach Him rightly, humbly – He does hear my prayers. This makes me so full of joy……after a week from hell. Praise Yahuwah for His tender mercies which are new every morning – Shabbat shalom!
Brother, get Avi ben Mordichai’s “Gallatians” series or book….it’ll take his entire “christian” based argument apart piece by piece and put it into perspective.
David,
Forgive me but I must ask a favor. Would you please use a last name initial or something. I have been on this blog for three years and I don’t want others to confuse your posts as being mine?
Especially since you seem so eager to trash my brother Avi.
To everyone else. Folks this is a new David. Do not mistake his posts for mine. I am not portrayed by a snowman or owl or whatever that thing is.
Blessings to all.
David, the obnoxious one! LOL.
David, I don’t think David was trashing Avi….he was saying get Avi’s series on Galatians and that Avi’s series would take apart the entire ‘christian’ based argument. You probably just misread it…I had to read it twice too, lol. I inititally thought he’d typed ‘I’ll take his entire’…instead of ‘it’ll (as in it will…) take his entire’…..
I think our eyes are getting old or sumthin
.
David,
Forgive me please? Like Lisa said, I believe my eyes are getting too old for this. I believe I am getting too old for the blog. Hard to admit but I have been failing since my cancer. I hope everyone understands.
Shalom all, and thanks Lisa and zenshu.
David
david,
i’m probably older than you with heart attack and recurring cancer,and i’m saying to you: stop flapping your lip and get back on the horse.:o)
How is your recovery going since the cryogenic treatment David? Are you improving?
david,
how was david(snowman) trashing avi???
Sorry to hear that man. We’ll be praying in our house for you as well… let’s hope for the best case scenario which would be that your dad gets his leg broken and gets a new name!
Bradley,
There is no need to worry about or think you’re having a pity party, brother. You’re among siblings here:
“Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.” (Matthew 12:47-50)
As I’m sure you know by now, the kind of thing you’re faced with is happening everywhere. It’s not easy, either, when you can’t go anymore and sit each Sunday in a 500 member congregation with a bunch of “like-minded” people and bolster yourself in the “comfort” of numbers. It’s not easy when you know you don’t have the stamp of denominational approval at your back serving as the wind in your sails. I’ve been told time and time again by a certain very special lady in my life (whom I’m starting to believe more and more I’ve lost forever),
“I don’t know ANYONE who believes like YOU!!”
“You’re an EXTREMIST!!”, etc.
It’s never been easy, brother, and it never will be this side of the kingdom. (And who knows, it may not be that much easier there for people, as hard as that is to imagine.) The funny thing is, I used to believe I knew what persecution was (when I called myself an “evangelical Christian”) and went around passing out gospel tracts and doing street evangelism. But as I set my feet on the path I’m on now (where I finally realized I’m a grafted-in, former gentile known as “Israel”) a brother who was teaching me told me that if I thought I had known what persecution was before, wait until I carry THIS message into the church to my “brothers” there. Then I would know what persecution is. And though that persecution is nothing like believers in, say, China face, it’s persecution nevertheless.
I was saddened to read your story here, even without the many painful details I know you probably could have added. (A ShamWow may have been in order had you gone into tremendous detail, because I know how hard it is, brother.) One thing that struck me is the way you said your father acts. With a respectful, sincere, tender heart, and a calm voice, you might want to ask him sometime, “Are disciples in Jesus Christ supposed to act like you’re acting?” His tirades, brother, are the products of conviction (and nothing more). One day, I have to believe, if he truly is the Father’s, those actions of his will be some of the very things the Father uses to open his eyes and teach him about the faith once delivered to the saints. For if Yah’s Spirit dwells in him, it won’t allow the anger, hostility and strife he’s causing to go unchecked. Be assured of that.
As far as the letters to the Romans and Galatians go, I would guess many of us here (who know the word better than I did when I began walking this path) have used those as our best arguments in the past, too. If I had a dime for every time those two letters were thrown in my face as the “Torah-smashing sledge hammers” they’re purported to be, I’d be sitting on a pile of silver coins so big that they could fill a baby pool up to look like a giant, shiny muffin. All you have to ask is,
“Are there any contradictions in the Bible?”
It’s interesting and, quite frankly sad, that the very same people who will say there are none, are the very same people who set forth a “Law vs. Grace” defense of their unbiblical, lawless positions. What’s so scary, though, is that they view (and teach) Paul as co-equal to (or worse, above) YHWH, with the all-too-typical one liner, “Yeah, but Paul said!”
I feel for you, brother, and understand the pain you’re experiencing (as probably everyone here does as well). You’ll be added to my prayers. I hope we get to talk soon (as I’m so thankful we’ve recently learned we live in fairly close proximity to one another).
Love,
Vic
Amen Vic. What blessed words of encouragement for our brother Bradley
Hi everyone,
This blog has been really powerful in opening my eyes to the trinity lie. Thank-you Scot for giving great clarity in what is really going on concerning this false doctrine. Please could you help me understand further concerning Yeshua. He was not at creation, or didn’t walk through the pieces during the Abrahamic Covenant or was not on the throne in Isaiah when Isaiah said “woe is me, I am a man of unclean lips…” or wrestle with Jacob through the night, or an angel of the Lord. What I have been taught at the assemblies is that in all these instances scripture was referring to Yeshua. So I guess my question is was Yeshua alive or a spirit before he was born on earth?
Thanks a bunch,
Jenny
I hope someone who has clarity on Jenny’s questions will share what they know or have been shown. I was just re=reading this thread today and so hopefully, someone will share:).
Shabbat shalom everyone.
Just a little 2 cents to add here.
Echad means “one”, but it also means “same”.
Ever heard the phrase “one and the same”?
Thats a Jewish phrase.
So it is entirely grammatically correct to say “Hear oh Israel, Adonai, Elohanu, Adonai is the same!”
Also, Echad can mean in some cases “a certain man”
http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/259.htm
Shalom!
Here is a random question, what program/software is being used to create this video?
-Anna
That a good example how life shoulds all work. Its that we are the image of God. Man is a soul, spirit, and flesh. John tells us that the Word became Flesh and that the Word was with God and is God. Yahushua is the Flesh, Yahweh is the Soul, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit. That also why Yahushua said My God, My God; 2 times at the cross. The Spirit and Soul leaving the Body for they are a unity of One. Our flesh has broke God Word back in the garden. When Satan tempt God to break His Word. Luke 4:12 Yahushua answer you shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
Thanks for the comment. Yeshua also said that God is spirit, not flesh or soul. He indwells bodies (believers), He indwelt Yeshua, He indwells us, yet that does NOT make us God.