Coexistence: Unity, Singularity, Pluralism and Universality outside of truth
I ask a few questions to see where people stand according to eschatology out of concern that deep deception has run a muck among folks who have been shown better. Never mind the variance within different “geographical” schools…this is far weightier.
i.e. Western vs. Eastern vs. Danite AC, etc…
The ramifications of NOT understanding the Anti-Messiah directly contributes to not understanding The Father & The Son and how the spirit holds them together.
1. From where does the “man of sin” receive his authority\kingdom?
2. When?
3. Where in scripture does the idea of a “Anti-Messiah” who deceives “Jews\believers” into believing he is the true Messiah come from if not for a faulty application of the prefix “ante?”
4. Does the AC’s behavior also play a role in determining the usage of “ante” whether it be “instead of” versus in “opposition to?”
5. Is relying on what is visible and subsequently placing your trust, destiny in its hands ALSO the embodiment of an abrogation of faith?
6. Can YHWH be limited and as a result contained by his own creation?
7. Can and have people seen angels\messengers from heaven in and outside of scripture?
8. How does echad(unity) differ from singularity, universality and coexistence?
9. What doctrines within Judaism, Christianity and Islam rapidly propel us toward the direction of “unity” outside of truth?
Think about these very hard as the answers to them ALSO show us the answers to much more important questions. Which will no doubt follow.
Feel free to chime in on one or all points!
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OK, I’ll give this gopher a wack!
1. From where does the “man of sin” receive his authority\kingdom?
The Adversary?
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin [fn] is revealed, the son of perdition 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God [fn] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Revelation 13:4 They worshiped the dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
When?
After the Dragon is hurled to earth?
Rev.12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains [will do so] until He is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the [lawless one] is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
“deep deception has run a muck among folks who have been shown better”
I do not wish to be deceived by any runnymuck ;o). I never know about the latest controversy so if I’m missing something let me know. This all seems very straight forward to me.
I’m on to question # 3
Shalom Out, Deb
If we can agree on points 1 and 2 can we all focus on 3 through 9? Once there is a reasonable consensus I would like to get the main point not yet disclosed.
It is important but will likely be deemed as “aggressive” and it is. It is aggressive because of where we are in time. The adversary is aggressive and so is The Great Physician.
Abba did not align me with “movers and shakers” in the relatively small Hebrew Roots\Restoration movement for a season to attack them but instead to show that there are major points of convergence…alongside a few weighty points of divergence.
Our site pulls a much larger and diverse group of folks than the other peoples sites and I am concerned that the minority position within the HRM might poison the majority.
I must say that the SILENCE among men that I have stood on stage with over the last several years is in fact DEAFENING. Constant expressed concerns from MANY people regarding Kabbalistic ramblings, Trinitarian idolatry and just plain old disregard for sound study has caused me to believe that they have gotten soft and if they are getting soft the people they pacify will get soft and complacent. That is saddening.
Debra! Soooo good to see you here! I have missed you.
Debra, its nice to see you back, we have missed your updates and comments on ME news etc. Glad you are back
Shalom
Thanks, had a system meltdown. Some ugly bug wiped my entire hard drive. Moments after I accessed the P.L.O. website with a translate program. Funny, I’m sure it was just a co inky dink. Also had to cut back on extra time commitments. But I missed you all too.
Scot,
I will chime in on #3 because I have been guilty of what you say.
Strongs (473) defines “anti” as “opposite”, “instead” or “because of” and rarely “”in addition to.”
Strongs (500) defines “antichristos” as “an opponent of the Messiah -antichrist.”
The term anti-christ or anti-christs are only found in the Epistles of first and second John. Which describes the anti-christ in 1st John 2:18 as “to come.” and “many existing” Ist John 2:22 as anyone who denieth that Yeshua is Messiah or denieth the Father an the Son, 1st John 4:3 as a “spirit” that denieth Yeshua and 2 John 7, as “deceiver.”
So, according to John the anti-christ is a deceiver who denies Yeshua as Messiah and denies the Father.
These are the only verses in all of Scripture that uses the term anti-christ.
The other terms used throughout Scripture to describe the “man of sin” or the Assyrian, or others, definitely show this spirit of anti-christ to dwell in them so they can rightly be called anti-christ.
My past assertions that the one we are watching for will be an imitation of Messiah is probably incorrect. I apologize to any who have read my posts that assert this definition. I need more study to understand what this character is to be like. So far i cannot prove Scripturally anything other than there is one to come who is a cruel tyrant.
DEBRA! Welcome back Sister! You have been missed.
BTW, I was going to email you to find out if you were OK but I got a new computer and when my wife transferred information from my old one to my new one, somehow your email address did not make it. At least I can’t find it. Would you please send it to me again. drnowlin@bendbroadband.com
Thank you and Shabbat Shalom!
David
I either forgot that you once thought that or never knew…lol. So did I by the way. Agreed on all points…
Hay David, Congrats on the new sweetie.
imadevorah@gmail.com.
Thanks Debra,
I still have stars in my eyes! I can’t wait till morning when I can go back to the hospital to see her. She was a month early so she has to stick around for a while with the hospital staff. Mother is there also.
Agreed on 1-3…lets look at 4-9, thanks. If there is SIGNIFICANT objection to 1-3 post it otherwise we can move on to the rest!
Sorry – not following on #3. Can someone please explain in simple terms what the problem is? Or, what wrong teaching is going around?
I vaguely had the idea that the False Prophet (not the AC/man of sin/Assyrian et.al.) would mimic or try to appear to be like Messiah — and those who don’t love the truth would fall for it. But I’m not married to this idea.
I also don’t want to be deceived by ‘any runnymuck’ (lol Debra).
Hi Debra – missed you!!!!
Lisa,
The teaching is question is that anti-christ means “in stead of christ. Thereby meaning that the anti-christ will be a loving imitation of Messiah who appears like an angel of light. One who will bring joy and peace but it will be a false peace. While that is a tactic of hasatan, there is nothing Scriptural that indicates that the man of sin we are all watching for will be of that nature. I know that is brief, however, I believe it is sufficient to clear up the point. If not, we can discuss it at length.
Thanks David – got it – much appreciate the explanation.
#6 God has spoken and He will not go against His Word; He will finish what He has started, He can’t stop now.
#9 presupposes that we know how Yeshua will judge.
The new testament says many times “savior of the world”
as well as things like
1 timothy 2:3-4
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
which goes back to number #6
can we change his will…
could we even in our most fallen state…. ever thwart what the father wants…
and what Yeshua has the power to do…
every knee shall bow and NONE of you know who he will throw into the lake of fire…
or who he will have in outer darkness..
or who he will simply annhiliate…
NONE of you no not one.
benjamin,
Is it participation in the groups listed in #9 that is the presupposition or the statement itself? It was a question and as best as I can tell that was not answered. Please elaborate and in doing so answer.
# 4 Prideful, weather it be worldy peace out of one side of his mouth, while destroying with violence from the other side…
we are told to fear the ONE who can DESTROY our soul in the fire not the one who can destroy our flesh
this leads me to believe the father will have mercy on some that you might not think deserve it.
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
this also leads me to believe that at least IN PART if not for all he will destroy them in the lake of fire not produce some…. eternal pain and torture. IT would be better if you had not known than if you known and turned back….
he will also spew some out of his mouth…
killing the soul sounds much less like… eternal burning.
it sounds like fear mongering coming straight from the same lawless churches that would have people believe paying tithe.. is required…. but somehow other torah concepts are not…
the worm dieth not is a very poor representation… so none of that as rebuttal i have heard it…
so its eternally rising smoke of their torment it is far from… comprehensive as you might hope to argue.
Before assuming you know the motive for the question…could you at least attempt to answer it? That would be merciful. I will repost number 9 for your rememberance. Stick to the topic and take note of the question mark that follows it. Otherwise people will assume based on the volume of the scripture references that you might be correct when in fact you are not.
9. What doctrines within Judaism, Christianity and Islam rapidly propel us toward the direction of “unity” outside of truth?
I have some thoughts on # 3, but some of it stems from my extra biblical study. I don’t know if it should be used in most cases when looking at prophesy,but for the answer to this question, I think it is worth a look. can we look at an example of Islamic prophesy that is in direct opposition to Torah and yet in itself confirms Torah, In the book of Rev. we have the enemy being gathered in a valley to be consumed by birds of prey. The Islamic equivalent describes the same event as the crowning of great kings where they will get there REWARD from allah. Same event, Waaayyy different outcome for those who show up. In my mind Anti Messiah will NOT look like Messiah, but be the antithesis. Anti Torah not at all alike. There is a caricature of the Roman Jesus that goes by the name of Essa ( i think ) who Islam expects to show up. But I believe there will be ALOT of beings who can do ALL KINDS of really cool stuff before long. He will be one of many “profits” After the casting down. None of them will measure up to the Man Of Sin.
Deb
The coexist lie is only viable because of the “everlasting punishment” lie.
People resist being forced.
People believe that “the Father” wouldn’t FORCE therefore… your not preaching “the Father”
(marry me or I will torture you indefinately)
Would you rather be a “thief and a robber” or a “wicked servant”?
wether you believe it or not many people in the coexist realm.. have made that choice with someother mental pictures than the ones i have just expressed.
The father says… I am CREATOR I have life. If you don’t go through me… then you wont have life.
Lawless whore riding beasts say… Join us because we know the truth if you dont you will be tormented for eternity.
Eternal” Punishment (Matthew 25:46) is NOT True to the Greek Language
Its the only place that ETERNAL and PUNISH are put together..
Yeshua is the all consuming fire so of course that is eternal… but what of the consequences?
“kolasin aionion.” IS punishment of the age. at best..
or even eternal Judgment or eternal consequence…
You wanna know how to combat “coexisters?” Tell them if they Choose Life they are choosing eternity. If they don’t … enjoy what you have left. You will regret it because your going to miss out. (thats enough for anyone to weep or knash teeth) Truth sets people free.
Don’t tell them God will give you an eternal soul just so he can cause you torment forever.
I have been wrong many times before on many things.
I hope if you have scriptures… you interpret them with scriptures and you dont get angry because that one guy you know… well your going to have to humble yourself….
# 6: No… YHWH can not be limited or contained by his own creation.
Job chapters 38-41 leading up to this: “Job 42:2 “You know that You are able to do all, and that no purpose is withheld from You. Job 42:3 Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge? Therefore I declared but I did not understand, matters too marvellous for me, which I did not know.”
#4, His behavior will be anti Torah, This is crucial to understanding who he is. His goals will be to eliminate Israel and ALL worship of anyone but himself. But Israel will be his main focus. Since he failed to destroy the child( the bloodline ). He goes after the mother and her children (Israel). That of course is what the stars say.
If the man of sin is an antithesis of Messiah, Then he would posses the authority of HaSatan in the same way Messiah possesses the authority of The Father.
Deb
# 5, Hmmm not sure I understand the question but….here goes anyway
The way I see it we have three choices when faced with a life or death decision
1. Choose to act
2. Choose to wait and see how things play out.
3. Choose not to act
2 & 3 will lead to the same place. SURPRISE.
1st thes. 5:4
Debra! Where is your Revelation Revealed video on YouTube?
uggg, Why?
Someone on this site was asking for it.
Oh, cool, it needs revision. I love the way we learn and are able to adjust our understanding. All those years of study and we still have to wait and see.There are some parts where even Scott and I differ on what we see unfolding. Having some way to plot what we see with what we know is coming is useful but I have learned these are tools and not to be followed so much as used like a rack to hang fulfilled prophesy from. Hopefully a clear picture will form. In any case, the best we can expect is a confirmation of events after the fact. I’m looking forward to a time when we can look back and laugh at what we thought was understanding.:0)
youtube.com/startrek97007
i watched the revelation 9 part series you had on youtube
and it was very thorough…. i liked what waz taught.
( although it was terrible monotone.)
one thing is that the sacrifices have not begun… which saddens me greatly
are there any other interpretations about the “beginning” of the sacrifices… you know of? I mean is there a possibility that the “sacrifices” might not be on temple mount… any other thing like our body is a temple etc….
and do you have any other thoughts about when we can expect to see israel (the country not YhwH interp of isreal) begin the sacrifices?
thnx
benjamin
Benjamin, I have no idea when these things will start. I’m not married to the idea these events are going to happen at all. Events in the region move at lightning speed these days. Who could have seen the *Arab Spring* a year ago? Will the temple be rebuilt? Are we misunderstanding the passage? There are a lot of people pushing this idea in Israel. Even going so far as to prepare the Temple implements. There is one huge problem at the moment. The ugly mosque occupying the land. The problem with using markers with unclear understanding is you risk dismissing all of the clear signs along with what would appear to be a missed event. Keep watching. What is the spirit telling you? Have peace in your heart when you see these things. It means,Yahovah is with us. If one part is true, it all is. Skip to the end of the book! *spoiler alert* He is Victorious
Shalom Out, Deb
Hi Benjamin,
I don’t believe the sacrifices can start anywhere else but at the temple mount. If they were to, they would not be where He has placed His name and thus unacceptable and seen as an altar to another god. Keep in mind this is also where the two witnesses will be and that, to me, eliminates our own body as the site.
As Debra mentioned, there are preparations for the altar. The Temple Institute of Israel (the place) has gathered the stones for the altar from the shores of the Dead Sea since these were not to be cut by man. These were collected and wrapped in bubble wrap to keep them from chipping one another. (They’ve also prepared the priestly garments, the holy vessels, instruments and a red heifer.) It would be be truly amazing if the Copper Scroll project were brought to fruition and it bore the genuine artifacts including the ashes of the previous red heifer….
It’s my understanding that the temple mount will be ‘rushed’ by a group of very eager rabbi’s to set up the altar, the sacrifices will resume and then be interrupted/cut short causing the abomination of desolation. I am guessing this will be at a time when the muslims of that area will be defeated/incapable of stopping them.
When this happens is the million dollar question.
http://www.templeinstitute.org/building-an-altar-9th-av-5769.htm
“5. Is relying on what is visible and subsequently placing your trust, destiny in its hands ALSO the embodiment of an abrogation of faith?”
“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.”
(Rom 1:20)
Yeshua said, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these. Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”
(See John 1:50-51)
There are many, many things that people saw and bore witness to. A couple of things come to mind:
“And John bore witness, saying, ‘I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining on, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.” (John 1:32-34)
“The God of our fathers raised up Yeshua whom you murdered by hanging on a tree… And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” (Acts 5:30, 32)
Yeshua said, “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word.” (John 17:20)
Yeshua said, “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe the Me for the sake of the works themselves. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
(John 14:10-15)
The visible and invisible work hand in hand.
“And so it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.” (1Cor 15:45-46)
There are things in the natural world that prove His Word.
His word (invisible) was before the “natural world” which is visible. That was not the question. Check it again if you would. Thanks! You are clearly headed where I hoped this would end and quite quickly I might add.
5. Is relying on what is visible and subsequently placing your trust, destiny in its hands ALSO the embodiment of an abrogation of faith?
“Faith IS (=) the substance of what is hoped for (something more than ANYTHING visible) and the evidence of what IS NOT seen”
No doubt, Abba reveals to us his nature in what IS SEEN…this is really about “where we hang our hat at the end of the day\age”
Ahhh… well then… pressed to zero in on a yes or no to your question, my answer to # 5 is yes.
If we rely on what is visible and therefore place our trust and destiny in the hands of what is visible, this would then make concrete/incorporate the abolishing/nullifying of faith.
At the end of the day/age faith comes by hearing the Word.
I do not rely on what is visible. My destiny is in the hands of our Father.
(I hope this wasn’t too many words.)
Respectfully…
Perfect…truth.
Summed up perfectly.
Hanging your hat or placing your future in what is visible, seen and AS SUCH contained by OBSERVABLE creation (of ANY KIND) represents a wholesale abandonment of faith.
Awesome.
1,2,3,4,5 out of the way.
6-9
#6 No
#7 Yes
#8 Please let me know if you agree with the following definitions:
Unity: oneness : a condition of harmony : accord : continuity without deviation or change as in purpose and action
Singularity: something that is singular as a separate unit
Universality: The quality or state of being universal : universal comprehensiveness in range
(Did you mean universalism: a theological doctrine that all men will eventually be saved?)
Coexist: to exist together or at the same time : to live in peace with each other esp. as a matter of policy
#9 False doctrines (I don’t know what the false doctrines are so I can’t elaborate here; my eyes pretty much stay in the Bible and my dictionary is helpful to me.)
5. Is relying on what is visible and subsequently placing your trust, destiny in its hands ALSO the embodiment of an abrogation of faith?
HEAR, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
(Deu 6:4-6 KJV)
Behold, I stand at the door, and KNOCK: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath AN EAR, let him HEAR what the SPIRIT SAITH unto the churches.
(Rev 3:20-22 KJV)
And he answered, FEAR NOT: for they that be WITH US are MORE THAN they that be with THEM. And Elisha PRAYED, and SAID, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
(2Ki 6:16-17 KJV)
Thou art my King, O God: command deliverances for Jacob. Through thee will we push down our enemies: through thy name will we tread them under that rise up against us. For I will not trust in my bow, neither shall my sword save me. But thou hast saved us from our enemies, and hast put them to shame that hated us.
(Psa 44:4-7 KJV)
Thou art the God that doest WONDERS: thou hast declared thy strength among the people. Thou hast with thine arm redeemed thy people, the sons of Jacob and Joseph. Selah. The waters saw thee, O God, THE WATERS saw thee; they WERE AFRAID: the DEPTHS ALSO were troubled. The clouds poured out water: the skies sent out a sound: thine arrows also went abroad. The voice of thy thunder was in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook. Thy way is in the sea, and thy path in the great waters, and thy footsteps are not known. THOU LEDDEST thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron.
(Psa 77:14-20 KJV)
Cause me TO HEAR thy lovingkindness in the morning; for in thee do I trust: cause me TO KNOW the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto thee. DELIVER ME, O LORD, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me. TEACH ME to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; LEAD ME into the land of uprightness. Quicken me, O LORD, for thy name’s sake: for thy righteousness’ sake bring my soul out of trouble. And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant.
(Psa 143:8-12 KJV)
Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon? Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
(Isa 51:9-10 KJV)
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst THOU LEAD THY PEOPLE, to make thyself a glorious name.
(Isa 63:11-14 KJV)
I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. HE SHALL COVER THEE with his feathers, and under his wings shalt THOU TRUST: HIS TRUTH shall be thy SHIELD AND BCUKLER. Thou shalt NOT BE AFRAID for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but IT SHALL NOT COME NIGH THEE. Only WITH THINE EYES shalt thou BEHOLD AND SEE the reward of the wicked. Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. For he shall give his angels charge over thee, TO KEEP THEE in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore WILL I DELIVER HIM: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me, and I WILL ANSWER HIM: I will be WITH HIM in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
(Psa 91:2-16 KJV)
2Sam22
Being a woman, His bride, I look to Him for my protection.
6. Can YHWH be limited and as a result contained by his own creation?
Yes. He’s ‘limited’ to act within the makeup of His being (incapable of being evil). His ‘limitation to the creation then, or how we would interpret Him as being ‘contained’, is related to His ‘Presence’; He can withdraw or draw near. Primarily though, He’s beholden to His Word.
(However, His hands are not “tied”, He does not face perplexing dilemma’s, He can altar the laws of nature (walk on water, raise the dead, turn water to wine), and He’s not tied to the dimensions of time, space and matter.)
I agree He is not “tied”, but also contend He is not limited and as a result not contained by his own creation. Him being incapable of being evil is because of Who He is, His very nature, character, essence. For Him to be evil is actually an impossibility not incapability. Maybe I am being too literal, however, the definition of incapable is “unable to do or achieve (something)”. So when I read verses like Job 42:2 “You know that You are able to do all, and that no purpose is withheld from You.” I come to the conclusion that He is able to do (yes, whatever His very nature is) whatever He chooses to. If He can be contained by His own creation then He would be limited to only act or do according to the containment that His creation places Him in. I find too many verses that make this impossible. I think we are saying the same thing, just wording it differently.
I didn’t like the way the question was posed. Everything in me fights against Him being limited and contained, yet as you noted whether we identify it as incapable or impossible, He is (limited/contained) according to who He is.
Perhaps someone else can say what we’re saying
….
#8
unity vs coexistance
** coexistance
is what we have been conditioned for in the world at large… namely tolerance for others ‘right’ to be thieves and robbers, and be merry and such like in the days of noah… (round about the time abominations were being concieved) – i.e. deception and ignorance
- Universality prohibits coexistance because singularity (individual – also Yeshua as the only way) causes contradiction **see below** Coexistance is niether singularity nor can it be universality if singularity exists.
** UNIVERSaLTY
In logic, or the consideration of valid arguments, a proposition is said to have UNIVERSaLTY if it can be conceived as being true in all possible contexts without creating a contradiction. (wiki)
But ethically means it applies to all individuals the same. If you use both definitions.. it can be concieved to be true without contradiction that Yeshua is the messiah… This true to all individuals but is not constrained by willful ignorance. This means it can be universal and “can be” doesnt negate it because conception (perception) is relative unlike the truth that declares itself singular.
**unity
is kinda like this blog… body of Yeshua. Parts of the body carrying out the Head’s will in tandem… mostly without understanding each other… but getting and sending to the head directly
my left hand doesnt know what my right hand is doing. But the Head does.
Unity occurs whether the part recognize they are singular withing a universality or not. The singularity and the universality must both be true… whether or not it “CAN BE” or whether or not it is percieved to be true is of no consequence. (YHWH doesnt need our consent, approval, or understanding to use us united in any task he wills) **we need understanding in order to not be destroyed by lack of knowledge that might steal our right OUR PRIVELAGE of being used by him i.e. rewards etc**
singularity – is defined as being seperate, singular, distinct or PECULAR…. so i dont suppose i can answer with what you may have had in mind. (I have only one left pinky finger. One HEAD.) Singularity is always present…. it is my understanding that anything can be considered set-apart or pecular (ie. naming every hair on someones head)
nehow…
thats my crack at #8 cause i wasnt terribly familiar with some of the terms.
# 7 I did not get an answer to this yesterday so I will try again.Do you believe this is deception?The little boy saw angels
http://www.whnt.com/news/whnt-faith-after-the-storm-20120216,0,5789009.story
there is a test in the bible for messengers, angels, and so forth.
They must be able to say that Messiah came in the flesh and was resurrected.
Those that would seek to decieve you wouldn’t say this.
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God 1 john 24
so thats how you would know.
I would bet it was a deception, but did anyone ask or “test the spirits” as John warns us to?
Ben, may I call you that? I believe you are half correct. The first part of the test is found a little earlier on. Before Messiah came onto the scene psychically. I will re post after I have some time to look up scripture references. My hard drive was destroyed by the P.L.O. (J.K.) and I lost all my notes.
I think John was not talking about ‘spirits’ in ‘angels’ but people that were preaching that Yeshua was not a real man, but only looked like that. They were the Gnostics.
the words about “angels” refer to Messengers…
and if your on PRofoundProphecy .com
you should know that… messengers… may in fact LOOK humanoid
issacsgma, Do you think he saw angels? Do you think Yashua would have presented himself as Jesus? Maybe. What would have been the point? Keep in mind that Abba wants us to return to Torah. If an event does not lead one to Torah then it is in question. No matter how emotional the situation. The one thing that we have to measure this by is every miracle done in scripture and every Profit of YHWH has pointed to Torah. The idea that a child can not be deceived is silly. Ask any christian child if Santa Claus is real. We need to be able to recognize our husband, and what is of His hand. Sorry if this is not a popular thought but someone needs to be blunt and I love you guys too much to let this one go.
Shalom Out, Deb
I believe the deception is so great and how sad that these familiar spirits are even using our children to deceive the masses with the help of media. I do not think Yashua would present himself as jesus he would not come in that name.I dont comment much and am moderately new to all this.I just wondered what you guys thought about it.
I agree, very sad indeed. But all things glorify the Father. How wonderful is it that we are awakening to the truth. Learning to follow the heart of Abba instead of our own. This gives us the ability to discern between a craftily conceived lie meant to appeal to our humanistic nature, and the true fruit of the spirit.
Shalom Out, Deb
Benjamin,
After veiwing the posts again I need clarity on the following statement as no “presupposition” existed apart from you own.
9. What doctrines within Judaism, Christianity and Islam rapidly propel us toward the direction of “unity” outside of truth?
Quickly following one presupposition with a worse presuppostion is perhaps the best way to wreck what could be a peaceful and healthy exchange.
And I dont believe peace is what we should be after anyhow, However it wasnt meant to be hateful…
I defined #6 unity in the other post about #6… cannot exist outside of truth .. reread it if you want.
therefore what you mean is coexistance….
the doctrine is everlasting PUNISHMENT.
i am sorry i made 4 posts and they god spread out… which wasnt the original intention.
everlasting punishment is not scripturally sound by any means.
and i believe its purpose is and was to keep people from realizing the truth of Yeshua by causing people to refuse to be forced by “petty pulpit theives”
It causes others immediately doubt without ever hearing anymore.
The creator gave you life. Gift
the creator gave you his son. Mercy
the creator ‘seemingly’ gave you free will, but you cannot use it or he will make sure you burn for eternity.
Its forced submission that way.
Its not forced submission if you just fail to get eternal life.
Smart people (not wise people) immediately disregard anything further… because its non sequiter. it does not follow.
This lowers the story of a loving father who gave his son for you and I to be redeemed into more self-righteous law keeping, or some crazy cult that blows themselves up as martyrdom.
I can find 20 verses that say “destroyed” or “second death” and very few if any that even resemble… eternal punishment.
As well as… death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire… so “eternal” can no way be true
Hell may be a place of torment… but even hell doesnt last forever.
I have brough this up in many places… and everybody always argues it… but never any scripture…
its deeply rooted… but it isn’t scripture..
eternal torment does not exist..
and if your mixing truth with lies… its no wonder that
CHRISTIANITY, Judiasm, and ISlam would propel people into COEXISTANCE….
not “unity”
Unity cannot be achieved unless singularity as well as universality are both present…***see above post***
“the creator ‘seemingly’ gave you free will, but you cannot use it or he will make sure you burn for eternity.
Its forced submission that way.
Its not forced submission if you just fail to get eternal life.”
If you think Yah gave man “permission” to “choose death” that would not be accurate. Yah laid before us “life and death” but with the commandment to “choose life”. He does not force our submission, we are free to disobey and “choose death”. Our choice as always is “to obey” or “not obey”.
If he was forcing us into submission, he would force us to “choose life” (for his will is not that any should perish but all would have everlasting life). The ability to choose life in obedience to his torah (man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of Yah) or death at the disobedience to Yahs’ commandment? (DO NOT EAT, for in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die).
As to “eternal destruction”: all living beings have the ability programmed (code) within themselves to “construct” a body. “Eternal destruction” means the ability to “construct” is removed for evermore. “Eternal life” means the ability to “construct” is added for evermore. All living bodies deconstruct. Eve was the “mother of all living” and that includes every living being like trees, animals, fish, not just people.
Yah has left his “constructed body” of the light bearer” and now has made “darkness his pavilion” until the “new construct” is finished. We can not see his face and live because he is not covered with his body (the covering angel). Man naked and unashamed can walk with him, Man covered in animal skins and ashamed (a body of death) cannot. Everything that is “light” he calls his son, Yehsua, the word of YHVH, who came to prepare a new body (the kingdom) for his Father. “Behold, I make all things new”.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”
First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
We are the body of Christ, the lamp, the construct that is eternal, the one who will “bear the light” into the entire world and proclaim the “good news of the coming kingdom of Yah”. The eternal habitation of YHVH.
The final “mother of all living”, the “New Jerusalem” of the “born from above” is the “CONSTRUCTION” of the “ BODY of the Living beings” that is “ETERNAL”. The old body is de-constructed for eternity. Eternal DESTRUCTSION in the lake of fire is the destiny for the “old body”. Like a snake shedding its skin, that moves on and does not look back and does not mourn the old skin….. We are leaving our deadness and the power of the grave Adam added to the construction of the body of Mankind. We (all living) are resurrected in Messiah, to go on to receive a place in the Kingdom of YHVH. A living stone in the “NEW” construct of the “BODY” whose light is the Father and whose lamp is the lamb.
He sets aside the first to establish the second (we see the body in the Abrahamic Covenant and this is why it is the “Covenant of Life”). The entire purpose of the temple made by hands of men is a type and shadow to teach us what he is doing: He makes a holy body (construct) for himself through the sacrifice of the body (construct) of Yeshua. As it is written, “there is one body”. Having made the body perfect (after the White Throne Judgment) , he delivers it up to the Father for the purpose of leaving his pavilion of darkness and entering the new body designed to hold the lamp of his light.
We must work to become perfect as he is perfect, to be worthy of our high calling, you Son’s of El, by the power of his Spirit, Blood, and Testimony.
Steven:
A man devises his ways but the Lord directs his steps. I have declared the end from the beginning…I will accomplish all my good pleasure. He wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The rest of your post I agree with, except we are the pavilion of darkness (adam). The new man is the light bearer, the old man was the light bearer.
All die in Adam, So also all shall be made alive in Messiah. Just not all at the same time.
Yah is not saving everyone. That is not what it means “all shall be made alive in Messiah”. In Adam all died means “every living thing that died was due to Adams rebellion (he was not deceived)”.
In Messiah shall all be made alive means “every dead thing that is resurrected” is in Messiah (if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto myself), a resurrection of the righteous and a resurrection of unrighteous. but all get resurrected. One enters into life through the resurrection of Yeshua which is the first resurrection. The second death is for the unjust.
Teaching that Yah is saving everyone for eternal life is wishful thinking and false teaching.
“it is not Yahs’ will that any should perish” means (to paraphrase) to those who refused to come to Yeshua to obtain eternal life, you are not perishing because Yah willed it, but because you refused to do his will and chose death instead, you chose your will over his. (Yahs Definition of rebellion).
There are many scriptures that prove he is not saving everyone and that is a false doctrine of the coexist movement. Only those drawn by the Father can come to the Son to receive life. Those not drawn by the Father he “never knew” and they do not receive eternal life.
Read the scripture again
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
And there are many scripts that also say that He will redeem all.
Or go ahead and read Romans 5.
The resurrection unto judgement is into the lake of fire, but it is for refining.
This has nothing to do with the coexist movement, it has to do with an omniscient, omnipotent, all loving, unfailing, Father of all.
What you are speaking is a pagan doctrine brought upon by the carnal minds of men. I’m sorry to be harsh, but it is a fact. Yah either created men to be burned forever (or annihilated), or He is not strong enough to overcome mens “free will”.
Or, In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.
The end is all in all at the reconciliation of all things. This is all through the bible, but we’ve bought the lie of either a cruel god, or a weak god. But He is so much better than that. This aint no free pass btw. Every knee must bow and tongue confess, (if you confess with your mouth you will be saved). And the fire of His love, the orgy(wrath) that He pours out will hurt, but thats what being tried by fire is all about. We are all salted by fire, some submit to it now, others are forcefully baptized in the LOF.
Blessings
Redhotmagma, I won’t argue with you. If you study the words of Yeshua, sent from above, you will come to a new understanding (Yah willing) of what is actually taking place here below. If you refuse to study Yeshua’s words, you will never come to understand.
Shalom
LOL, and you can continue to follow Roman Catholic doctrine that is straight from Babylon, refined in Egypt, adopted by the Greeks, and mixed into the pristine faith that Yeshua is the savior of the world, especially of those who believe, not specifically, not only, especially.
You know not what you speak of concerning my studying the words btw. You may want to reconsider handing down judgements so quickly.
Behold I am making some things new?
When I am lifted up I will draw some people to myself?
Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of 5% of the world?
The son of man came to seek and save the righteous?
At the name of Yeshua some knees will bow and a few will confess?
When He hung on the stake do you think He meant it when He said, Father forgive them for they know not what they do?
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
False doctrine: They all will inherit eternal life. Everyone, not just the seed sown on good ground, brings forth eternal life. All ways lead to eternal life eventually. Everyone inherits eternal life, the just and the unjust, those who do good and those who do evil. Even those who go into the lake of fire can get out.
Truth: “Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and ALL WHO DO EVIL. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
the words ETERNAL PUNISHMENT can be
eternal consequence…
eternal judgement…
so you have lost more than have of your scripture.
and althout it is hard to fathom it can also be
age duration punishment
age duration consequence
age duration judgement
however this one is harder to reconcile because Yah is described with the same word “eternal” or “age end of”
but still.. the second word can be “consequence”
and not “torment”
and just because something is eternal punishment…
doesnt even mean it will be eternal torment.
if the punishment has no recourse… it would be eternal..
whether or not the… LIFE is gone..
or more simply the SECOND DEATH had occured.
the point is…
is YAH vindictive… is his torah vindictive?
i cannot belive this.
and I hope he does save everyone…
but if he doesnt… he surely wont be eternally tormenting them… by sustaining life so they can continually experience it.
thats silly…
YAH breaks potter and refines by fire…
he doesnt abuse
he destroys.
this is not Saw the movie. (grotesque movies hate them)
“the words ETERNAL PUNISHMENT can be eternal consequence…eternal judgement…”
Ben, since you keep repeating yourself, why don’t you go ahead and explain your point, show how it can be the same.
Where are the terms used in the bible and how can we know for sure ETERNAL PUNISHMENT has alternative meanings.
Not disagreeing with you, but put up or shut up, as my dad used to say.
Steven, You wrote this above ” Only those drawn by the Father can come to the Son to receive life. Those not drawn by the Father he “never knew” and they do not receive eternal life. ” That sounds like the Father is only drawing some and thereby the free will for all to be drawn and then return to Him via Yeshua (and his example of obedience).
Duncan, how do you interpret Yeshua saying: “and he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them
What does it mean “To them it is not given…lest at ANY TIME they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them”?
The saying “whosoever will, come and drink of the water of life freely” only includes those who heard and were converted having faith.
Yeshua asked, “Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?”. The seed is sown “offered upon the entire world” but ONLY that which was sown on the “good ground” produced life, or “the kingdom of El”.
ANY TIME may refer to the season of visitation.
I think ” good ground ” is determined by the actions of whosever that hears Abba calling/drawing to believe and return.
Yes Duncan you are exactly right, since “today is the day of salvation” it is the season of visitation.
Hearing and Believing and Doing (actions leading to return), yes, exactly Duncan, for: “Luke 8:15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.”
Steven wrote:
“Eve was the ‘mother of all living’ and that includes every living being like trees, animals, fish, not just people.”
Respectfully, how did you come up with this?
Gen 3:20 And AdamH121 calledH7121 his wife’sH802 nameH8034 Eve;H2332 becauseH3588 sheH1931 wasH1961 the motherH517 of allH3605 living.H2416
Eve H2332
H2332
חוּה
chavvâh
khav-vaw’
Causative from H2331; lifegiver; Chavvah (or Eve), the first woman: – Eve.
Eve did not give life to trees, animals and fish.
Let’s look at this word, “was” H1961
H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw’
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): – beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
“So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion (H7287) over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.’” (Gen 1:27-28)
Dominion H7287
H7287
רדה
râdâh
raw-daw’
A primitive root; to tread down, that is, subjugate; specifically to crumble off: – (come to, make to) have dominion, prevail against, reign, (bear, make to) rule, (-r, over), take.
Adam spoke the truth of God by calling his wife’s name knowing that they would multiply themselves and have dominion over the fish, birds and living things that move on the earth; and to tend and keep the garden (also see Gen 2:15).
Respectfully…
April,
You are spot on Sister.
Steven:
Would you please explain your thinking on this subject to us. How do you understand Chavah to be the Mother of vegetation etc.?
The name Eve means Gathering, Declaration or Humility, because she was the mother of all of life and you have to study the root meanings of the Hebrew. These meanings are to be understood as “gathering of all living” or “declaration of all living” or “humility of all living”.
Genesis 3:20 Eve hawa, or Chava means “life” and is Mother of “all life”: In Hebrew “Kal Hay”. The term “kal Hay” is used and teaches us by context what is meant.
In Gen 8 the smell of sacrifice sooths YHVH and he says TO HIMSELF, (covenant with rainbow sign is made) “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy Kal Hay, as I have done.” Remember the curse was not only on Adam and Eve but “I will curse the ground”.
Besides a “seed of life” preserved in the “ark” all Kal Hay was destroyed. So we know in context that if Eve is the “Mother of Kal Hay” this would include what is destroyed by water.
Job 12:10 “In whose hand is the soul of Kal Hay, and the breath of all-flesh of man?”
The phrase ‘all life’ includes all mankind.
Job 28:21 “Thus wisdom is hidden from the eyes of Kal Hay; and concealed from the birds of the sky” A tie to birds flying. If you study the “living creatures” flying the throne of El, you will find a tie to Eve.
Job 30:23 “For I know that Thou wilt bring me to death. And to the house of meeting for Kal Hay.” All Kal Hay dies, but only once by water. Once by fire.
Psalm 143:2 “And do not enter into judgment with Thy servant, for in Thy sight Kal Hay is not-just.”
The bible teaches of creation has fallen. Not only human life, is unjust.
Psalm 145:16 “Thou dost open Thy hand, and dost satisfy the desire of Kal Hay”. All living creatures.
God tends or cares for “all living creatures”, Matthew 6: 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life? 28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?”
The root for mother, em, comes from the same root as amma, Mother City, like in Mother Babylon (BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.)
The title “mother of all life” a biosphere of “all living things”. The derivative (hawwa), meaning tent or village (Deuteronomy 3:14, Joshua 13:30) is identical to the name Eve.
The “gospel” is to be preached to “all creation” and “all creation groans for the manifestations of the Sons of El”. For “all living” or “all life” includes all of creation.
The “mother of all life” is what satan is after, to steal the bride he believes is his as he tried to “take” Eve in the garden: “Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”. The high mountain, ZION.
While Yeshua and the Father “work” to build the new biosphere “construct” or “body” of “all living things” the anti-christ is building his own version. When he is done with his “construct” or his own version of the “new body” made of COEXISTING, he will enter the temple and declare himself G-d.
The “new construct” will not coexist with the one built by haSatan.
What a mix!
Steven, you don’t make a distinction between a person, and an animal or a tree?
Wow!
Creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God… There is a distinction!
Would it be true if it were claimed that you are an animal?
April, there is no need to make a distinction and that was my point and what the scripture is saying, if you understand the context. When all died in Adam and his eyes were opened he named the “woman” Eve for she was “mother of all living” and that title was for all living things, trees, animals and people as well as anything else that has life and breath, commanded to come and praise Yah.
“Mother of all life” is a title….like “Queen”. It does not mean that Eve produced out of her womb animals and trees. Not sure why you would think that way.
It is a title like “Queen of the gathering of all humble and living things” when crowned Queen, the title is what you ARE as well as what you DO. From Eve the title passes generation by generation and would eventually come to the “blessed among woman” Mary who would produce the heir of the Kingdom of YHVH. The title passed through generations was held by Mary and passes to “New Jerusalem” Daughter of Zion, the bride who will bring forth life. (Issac takes his bride into his mothers tent).
A King does not need a distinction FROM his Kingdom. A King is “of the realm” and it IS him and he IS it.
Song of Solomon 3:11 “come out, and look, you daughters of Zion. Look on King Solomon wearing a crown, the crown with which his mother crowned him on the day of his wedding, the day his heart rejoiced.” Who was the Mother of Solomon? She held the title “mother of all living”. Who crowns the King? The Mother.
The King is NOT what He created!
There is a difference between stepping on a cockroach and snuffing out a human life… get real!
“The King is NOT what He created!”
Of course he is….
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.”
This one who made all things, sun moon and stars, earth and seas and all that grows out of and lives in them, and “in him was life” ……was then born from a woman.
How can the creator of all things (there was nothing not made by him) be born from a woman he created?
Shalom
Can what was created sustain itself?
No!
The Creator sustains all things.
There is a distinction.
Shalom
“Can what was created sustain itself? No!”
I disagree and you go ahead and make all the distinctions you feel you need to, they really have nothing to do with what I am talking about.
BE FREE!
Yeshua is a man. Man was created/formed from the dust of the ground. What did the Father give him?
“For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.”
Yeshua a created man sustains himself because he was given “life in himself” as the “Father has life in himself”.
In Ecclesiastes I see:
I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. ALL HAVE THE SAME BREATH; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Eccl 3:18
Interesting, I wonder what Solomon understood?
Oh yeah, Solomon’s wisdom…
He was wise enough to have many idols to worship. He must have had the same reasoning: We are nothing more than animals, and God is whatever He created so let’s go ahead and worship it all. And we’ve all been one unified kingdom from then all the way to the present… no distinctions what so ever… No Steven I don’t believe your word game!
April, I guess this is where we agree to disagree.
“… although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.”
(Rom 1:21-25)
@April,
I wanted to address your statement about Solomon.
Are you saying that because Solomon was into idol worship (breaker of the commandments), his sayings are not inspired and or to be heeded or regarded? Because if you are, it comes off as disingenuous (to me) that you would throw out scripture if it does not agree with or uphold your premise.
Every single person in scripture, with the exception of one, was a sinner.
We’re going to disagree with each other here on the forum, that’s a given (for now
). But still we all agree that His Word is truth.
I never looked at it like this before Steven.
After they opted for the Tree of K.O.G.A.E they’re booted out of Paradise, into the world they have ‘generated’ by the choice they’ve made. That would now included the Other Seed; thorns and thistle, wild beasts (after the flood) and the resulting and ensuing offspring of the Other seed.
This is how in essence she is referred to as the mother of all life.
But with the New Jerusalem, propagated only by good seed, there will no more be thorns, thistles, tares, wild beasts, etc.
Very, very cool.
Teresa…..
Way cool, sister.
Teresa C., I was feeling very sad and you uplifted my soul. Thank you for sharing my equation with me.
I want to give you a present. It is just a connect the dots picture. I am going to draw it out and post it to you (later) and then I am going to stop writing for a time, at least not so much.
Shalom
Steven,
May I offer a different translation? From “The Stone Edition Tanach.”
“Then I said to myself concerning men; “God has chosen them, but only to see that they themselves are as beasts.” For the fate of men and the fate of beast, they have one and the same fate: As one dies, so dies the other, and they all have the same spirit, Man has no superiority over beast, for all is futile.”
The word “ruach” translated as breath or wind and can also be translated as “spirit” is not the same word found in Beresheet “nefesh”! Animals do breathe the same air we do and they have spirits also and sometimes are called “nefesh” it is not the same as the Nefesh of Eloheim that He breathed into man. To claim this is to do what we are warned against, to bring the Creator down to the level of the creation.
“To claim this”
David, I did not claim that or translate it. What are you talking about?
If you are referring to how April is taking it, respectfully, direct your comment to her. Shalom
Steven,
It had nothing to do with April.
You said, ” ALL HAVE THE SAME BREATH;”
I don’t know what translation you were using but I have never seen one that uses all caps. That is usually to indicate emphasis. If you meant to emphasize something else, please share it.
Shalom
David, yes I emphasized it, but I did not translate it or give my opinion of what it means, did I? But both you and April are interpreting what I said in some pagan way.
April said: “and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things”
David said “To claim this is to do what we are warned against, to bring the Creator down to the level of the creation.”
I never said nor intended to mean the worship of animals, or to make the creation equal to the Creator, other than the context of the creator born of a woman. What I wrote has nothing to do with worshiping creation.
Steven,
Thats fine brother. I did not mean offense. I only wanted to clear it up. If myself and April interpreted it that way then others may have also and just didn’t comment.
That is why I ask you if you would please share with us what you meant or why you put emphasis on those words.
Shalom (Peace brother)
David, Peace my dear Brother. Your right to do so and clear it up, I hope my explanation was not too strongly worded. Shalom
If I may, with head bowed and quiet voice. I did not see in either of the interpretations used for Ecclesiastes that nefesh was inferred, only that all share the same breath.
Once again via this cold medium, we as Bereans may have failed to ‘work it out’ with humility and love (myself included).
Please forgive me for any offense. Shalom.
SOME ARE MADE FOR GLORY SOME FOR DESTRUCTION
you think you do but you have no choice to whether you were chosen from before the foundation of the world.
it isnt really up to us… you are not special… you are simply chosen.
its forced submission in the sense that when you LOOK at it.
Im not saying Yah forced anything….. from your perspective about whether your CALLED and CHOSEN or whether you say a little prayer and follow commandments and Yah owes you salvation.
I am saying that if anyone with rational LOGICAL thought thinks about it…
they are going to immediately say… this STORY is MAN MADE because an all powerful god has no need for petty vengence.
get learned.
If we are vessels made by the potter…
and the potter makes us as he wills…
then even though he can still find FAULT and destroy us…
why would he find fault in order to ETERNALLY punish…
when eternally annihilation… or eteranl consequence of being consumed by fire (because eternal life is not inherited by the wicked) would bring the same effect without needlessness.
what your describing with eternal punishment is a sociopath like in the SAW movies.
it bears no fruit….
Why would YAH do anything that wouldnt bear fruit?
Burning the tares is what I expect…
not punishing clay pottery that was formed not by human hands and not chosen…
I hope you don’t secretly hope certain people do actually get punished for eternity…
i believe you will be angry
maybe like prodigals older brother…
Ben, I don’t believe in the eternal living being cruelly tormented at all times throughout eternity. I believe in the “second death” where the eternal sentence after judgment of a deconstructed soul is “dealt out” in the lake of fire. I DO most certainly believe G-d takes vengeance.
Shalom
glad there we can agree..
i can see ALL and prefer it because ALL powerful could indeed get his WILL in spite of us…
that being said…
Yeshua is JUST. YAH is JUST …. so there could be punishment or consequence.. that is possibly a “slower” destruction than i have been imagining.
but There is not Cruelty in Yeshua or YHWH…
there will not be eternal torment….
and this teaching is disgusting… and its effect is much larger from having been implemented than most realize.
Matthew 25:46 is “kolasin aionion.”
“punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit.”
if we assume that you are correct about “Not all being saved”
then chastening correction or punishment are not appripriate because… there is no recourse.
TO cut off is the only one that works. To be eternally cut off. being cut off from the “LIFE” means death. Your not going to get souls sustaining themselves for eternity. And your never going to get the “LIFE” giving away to the wicked what he said they would never inherit.. ETERNAL LIFE.
The second death is not eternal torment. I wouldnt want anyone to experience it… and that is why the truth is going to set more people free than fearmongering.
Here is a good excerpt from http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
People, if the love of Christ is in your hearts, this should cause you to really look into this. This world needs to be set free of false images and concepts of our wonderful Father. Please meditate on this very thoughtfully and prayerfully. If eternal torment is the penalty for sin and the Creator did not want anyone ending up there, then it should stand to reason that He would make the warning as absolutely clear as He could make it. If He is not a respecter of persons, as He claims in the New Testament, then that warning should be loud and clear to all mankind, past, present, and future. But the fact of the matter is that Adam was never warned, he was warned the penalty would be death, not eternal torment. Thousands upon thousands were born after Adam and they were never warned. Moses came along and gave to Israel His Law, which was binding only to Israel, and it mentioned that the wages of sin was death, not eternal torment. He wrote about blessings and cursing in this lifetime, not of some pending judgment which would set one’s course for all eternity. He destroyed Sodom for great sin and promised to restore them one day and give them to Jerusalem as a daughter. (Ezekiel chapter 16) According to the Mosaic Law, the blessings and cursings dealing with the Law dealt with this lifetime, not with eternity. The consequence of breaking Moses Law was cursings in this lifetime, the greatest of which was a shortened life through an early death. Period!
the presupposition… was that islam, christianity and judiasm are in fact propelling people into unity…
when in fact they are propelling them … into coexistance (tolerance)
@Benjamin, don’t quote me again without placing the entire purported presupposition. I like your fight but I can’t stand a liar.
You said:
“the presupposition… was that islam, christianity and judiasm are in fact propelling people into unity…”
I actually said:
“What doctrines within Judaism, Christianity and Islam rapidly propel us toward the direction of “unity” outside of truth?”
You removed “outside of truth” from the statement. Do tell us why and quickly and don’t ever do it again.
actually been a while thought i wasnt making any progress although..
i didnt intentially leave of “outside of truth”
but with or without it the sentance its show that “unity” is tongue in cheek.
I know that you dont think thats noone inside of those will come to the truth… i have listened to about everything about this ministry…
my point on this small update was actually to correct what you had asked before..
and i wish the posts would stick together it makes it harder to follow where i had posted it.
but the assumption is that “unity” is even possible outside of truth… which isnt.
coexistance isn’t unity…
but then i listened to the one on “hebrew in the morining show” and discovered “singularity” as like the
melting pot for all other faiths *including* atheism as i see it as a faith.
regardless
all that is to say that these people that go for singularity (now i know what your def was meant to be)
all propelled there by the idea that Yah and Yeshua (from God and Jesus in torahlessness institutions)
i know a big one is the eternal torment lie.
I KNOW this and this was my original point.
I ALSO DO NOT LIKE LIARS.
and as i said before would like to see a teaching on it… as long as there is scripture…
in fact a good scripture to anything i have posted about “eternal torment” being a false doctrine would be nice
before you add another presup of liar.
i would appreciate if you would actually say
no your wrong here is a scripture… before saying you think i was intentially trying to lead people astray.
so some are persuaded the “christian god” is a lie and move to “singularity” outside of truth because the man on the other side of the door
would torture you indefinately if you didn’t do as you were told.
its a doctrine and its from christianity…
and it still persists even with the awsome truth of the torah.
the worm dieth not… and the fire is not quenched is the best i am able 2 find for counters.
but without eternal life its eternal “punishment”
a punishment that is eternal.
and if its actually an eternal torment … who benefits and what is the purpose.
i submit the only ones that would benefit have church mortgages to pay off.
I do not believe that if the “spirit of the Torah” can be found in Yeshuas writings in such as:
if someone robs you give them your cloak as well.
pray for your enimies.
love your enimies as yourself.
that Yeshua can very well be just and merciful and eternal in his punishments (all of which are scriptural) and still not torment eternally (which i have a hard time finding outright in the scripture)
this leads people into “christianity” and into “atheism”
but does not propell people into Torah truth at all.
thanx i wont post anymore.
7. Can and have people seen angels\messengers from heaven in and outside of scripture?
8. How does echad(unity) differ from singularity, universality and coexistence?
9. What doctrines within Judaism, Christianity and Islam rapidly propel us toward the direction of “unity” outside of truth?
7. Yes definitely inside of scripture. I would say Yes to outside of scripture as well BECAUSE it happened inside of scripture.
8. Echad is united in purpose and intent by and through submission to YHVH. While singularity, universality and co-existence are all based on the tree of knowledge of good and evil, deciding for ‘self’ what is good.
9.
a.The anticipation of the Messiah/Christ/Mahdi and The End of this Age makes everyone vulnerable to the Anti-Messiah if they don’t know how to recognize Messiah.
b.The worship and belief of a false god(s)/Idolatry has lead to beliefs in false doctrines, again making people easy pickings.
c.Rejection of Torah causes self determined truths which can be molded by the enemy for his purpose(s)
d.Fearing man instead of Elohim, may result in self preservation at any cost thereby ‘gaining’ your life, but losing it… (conversely murdering in the name of a god) Another result of false doctrines
e.Politics, let face it, the religions of this world are primarily driven by politics. This will be the grounds for the disillusionment, apostasy and falling away by many who will be ready to be grabbed up by the enemy.
I think these reasons set the ground work for dividing and conquering and bringing the masses into ‘unity’ outside of truth.
Teresa,
You said of the Angels, “7. Yes definitely inside of scripture. I would say Yes to outside of scripture as well BECAUSE it happened inside of scripture.”
I believe you are correct. However, those appearances inside of Scripture are totally believable. Why? Because they are inside Scripture.
Those outside of Scripture however leaves us with much doubt. There have been so many bogus claims and far out stories and appearances of Mary etc. That we are left with a great deal of doubt as to the truth of any of it. And, rightly so. We must be careful. Even ha’ satan appears as an angel of light.
Those which appeared in Scripture expected to be believed. If they were not, they often punished the one they were appearing to, such as with Zechariah, the father of Yochanan the Immerser. So there must be something about the appearance of the True Angels which would leave no doubt unless the heart of the one seeing the Angel contains doubt and fear.
I have a friend who is a Sister, who came out of a Pentecostal Church environment who told a story to our Assembly about a nine foot Angel who appeared to her. I did not believe her story. One reason is that she declared him to be nine feet. How did she know? Did she measure him? So what ever happened it was exaggerated. I also saw a Utube video of a bunch of folks on a bus in Israel who were claiming the bus was accompanied by Angels and gave as proof the video of circles of light moving around outside the bus. This could have been easily faked. Also, I don’t recall any instances in Scripture that Angels appeared in this form.
There are just too many stories going around. We need to be very suspect of these tales.
@David,
I completely agree with you. When I answered the question it was simply with a yes or no and without caveats.
7. Can and have people seen angels\messengers from heaven in and outside of scripture?
Angels/messengers can be fallen, false and as you pointed out even bogus, yet in spite of these I still believe that Angels/messengers can and have been seen from heaven both in and outside of scripture.
If it’s yes in scripture, it’s yes in our reality.
What is at question then is which are legitimately sent from YHVH in goodness and truth (from the good side). How do we recognize His Angels/messengers as opposed to those appearing as if they were representing YHVH. How do we discern the angel of light (haSatan) from The Angel of Light (YHVH).
Teresa,
Sorry, I overlooked the question at the end of your post. You asked, “How do we recognize His Angels/messengers as opposed to those appearing as if they were representing YHVH. How do we discern the angel of light (haSatan) from The Angel of Light (YHVH).”
My answer would be, “If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we will have fellowship with one another and the Blood of Yeshua will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
I believe if we are truly walking in obedience to His Torah Commandments He will not allow us to be drawn into a bunch of false doctrine and sensationalism that would open the door for the adversary to send his deceiving angels. The narrow way is the only safe way. It is not found in Constantinian Christianity, Judaism,(Messianic or otherwise) or any other fig leaf religion. It is only found in the Truth, which is Torah, which is Light, which is Mashiach, which is the Way, which is the Torah, and around and around we go. But if we stay on the cycle of righteousness the doors to the enemy will be slammed shut and we will not be deceived. That is not to say that hasatan will not try or that we will never make a mistake. We just need to be diligent so that we can be discerning.
The prefix anti means “against” or “in opposition of”. I don’t think there is any way to use this prefix as “instead of”.
Example:
Bacteria
Anti-Bacterial
Nomian – The one that is in favor of a order/law
Anti-nomian – The one that is against a order/law ou he is against the order/law
Messiah – Salvation
Anti-Messiah – Against the Messiah, against Salvation and all that it represents, which also means, being against the law of God.
not in the greek usage. Every, or almost every use of it is “for or in place of”
Here is every use of the word
http://classic.net.bible.org/search.php?search=greek_strict_index:473
I for one prefer to be an expert on the genuine not the conterfeit. Just as bank tellers are taught to know the difference by thoroughly handling and knowing the real thing so that they will instantly know the fakes when one comes through the window.
At the same time, I hope none of my diligent attention to studying the scriptures distracts me from living out Torah as some disciples in Acts 6 were admonished because they were engaging in too much study and not enough follow through such as taking care of widows and orphans who were being neglected because of their zeal to know more.
I’m thinking I need to get a little more doing into my Sh’ma.
Shalom,
Irene
Shalom Irene,
I agree with most of what you said, however, the Apostles were doing what they should do in devoting themselves to the Word and to prayer. They did not discontinue this practice, rather they appointed 7 others to take care of the widows and orphans etc.
We all need much more doing in our Sh’ma.
It appears that you are a David Matthews fan. Am I correct?
Who’s David Mathews?
I certainly have no disagreement with your response while at the same time can’t think of one reason why one or the other should be neglected being careful to take inventory from time to time whether one is suffering at the expense of another. So, might you refer me to someone who’s taking care of widows and orphans so that I can keep up my studies & prayer without concern? I’m not being facetious and have been praying for Yah to reveal who I can contribute to in that regard as I’m not real comfortable with just passing gifts along to local shelters. Sorry this off topic for this blog but I really do want to give and completely confused with all the street corner begging going on. It is difficult to discern true need from other issues…and then I don’t want to get into the role of becoming a heartless judge. I guess I need to just keep trusting & waiting for Yah’s guidance but if you have some practical insight, I would be grateful.
Irene,
My response was only intended to point out that the “Apostles” were to continue in the Word and prayer and allow others to “serve tables.” In our lives we are certainly meant to serve widows and orphans etc. Sorry, I didn’t mean to confuse the issue.
As for street beggars, I will tell you how I look at it. It may be right or it may be wrong but I struggled with this issue a lot.
We know that YHVH looks at the heart. We are not able to tell the phony beggars from the truly needy ones. So, I consider it the responsibility of the beggars to be honest in the eyes of Eloheim. My responsibility is to be compassionate and loving. Not to judge or condemn. They may very well be better off than I and that is just the way they choose to make their living. They may be drunks and drug addicts and will misuse what I give them and they may be genuinely poor and needy and unable to care for their families.
If I give to them, I am giving to the needy in the eyes of YHVH regardless of whether they are needy. They will answer to Him for their dishonesty if that is truly what they are.
So, I choose to give and allow YHVH to be the judge.
I also find that to give to food banks either by contribution or by volunteering my service is a good thing. The same is true with homeless shelters.
It is best for me to just give as commanded and not allow the adversary to cloud my thinking and my desire to give and be obedient to Torah with all his evil suggestions and accusations about the one I may choose to give to. Usually my heart is moved when I see a street beggar and I want to help. At other times I am not moved to do anything. I interpret this as the Ruach moving my heart.
BTW, David Matthews is a Messianic Torah teacher and the leader of a congregation, I think in Mississippi. I listen to him sometimes on Hebrew Nation Radio. He is very good at breaking the Word down into the Hebrew. He also uses a lot of gamatria. I enjoy his teachings although I don’t always agree with him. If you wish, I will send you a link where you can listen to him.
Your reference to the counterfeit issue made me think you may listen to him because he uses the same example in his teaching often.
AWESOME! Thank-you David!! Once again I am blessed by this site! You helped to clarify this niggling issue … a lot of freedom in YHVH ‘s simple beautiful Torah when The Spirit and Truth embody it.
I would love a link to Mathew’s site.
i thought dave matthews was a musician…?
who are you people ?
me too Ben…heehee Had to look him up.
Irene,
Try this and see if it works. This is the “Way to Zion” site belonging to Eddie Chumney but he has the audio teachings of David Matthews. David can be difficult to follow but there is a lot of good information in his lessons.
I am glad YHVH has clarified the issue of the poor for you.
Blessings
http://www.waytozion.org/teachings/David%20Mathews/david.html
Ok…
As best as I can tell we have a pretty good consensus up until #7
Can you guys do the following, please?
1. state objections to 1-6 in ONE QUICK SENTENCE or LESS? Please…
2. Focus on 7-9
Regarding #7
The usage of ANTE is determined by its context. So to narrow it down so that we are not derailed any further, the following.
What BEHAVIOR of the AC warrants the usage of “instead of” or “in place of” versus “in opposition to…”
Chapter and verse helps. Where could he (AC) be seen as being Y’shua based on what they BOTH DO or did?
I am going to go stab myself with a spoon.
7-9 would be helpful from this point forward…thanks.
Hold on with the spoon…
Regarding #7 has to do with angels/messengers, so your following words are really confusing me.
Yeshua showed Himself to be God, which is true.
AC wants to show himself to be God, which is false… this isn’t what he already did so this is really confusing…
Is this getting close to what you are looking for?
Don’t know what this has to do with angels/messengers.
Is it signs and wonders? “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders.” (2Thess 2:9)
Stuff pops into mind on true signs. The virgin was a sign; Jonah was a sign; water into wine was a sign; healing leapers was a sign… of the Truth.
With sincerity of heart…
smart cookie
No,
Y’shua did not let the buck stop with his visible self\vessel by declaring Himself god and then dying. Instead, He showed himself to be faithful to the word (invisible) of His Father…even piercing the veil of his own flesh unto death. I knew that I should have expounded when I typed that, initially…sorry.
Yes, this is going somewhere…albeit slowly. I knew it would be lengthy and that is alright.
True signs (visible) come after the true word (invisible) that bring them into being.
9. What doctrines within Judaism, Christianity and Islam rapidly propel us toward the direction of “unity” outside of truth? **They all claim to believe in the One true Elohim with Abraham being the father of all 3 faiths **Not too sure about Islam’s absolute teaching on this next part so this is from what I have read; They all have three beings incorporated into their idea of Elohim. This topic has been one that has caused me to selah! That’s a good thing, as I find myself rushing headlong into trying to catch up and at the same time undo some junk.
I want to give this another crack, M is Messiah and AC is Anti-christ.
**Starts at the Temple Mount;
M – Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
(Zec 14:3-4 KJV)
M – And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
(Zec 14:9 KJV)
AC- And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
(Dan 11:36-37 KJV)
AC – And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
(Dan 11:31 KJV)
**Will be Worshipped;
M – Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
(Rev 14:7 KJV)
AC- And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8 KJV)
AC- And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Rev 13:12 KJV)
AC – And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. (Rev 13:14 KJV)
AC – And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
(Rev 19:20 KJV)
**Will establish (AC will try to) one Government;
M – And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
(Luk 1:33 KJV)
M – And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
(Dan 7:14 KJV)
AC – And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
(Dan 2:39 KJV)
AC – For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
(Rev 17:17 KJV)
AC – And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Rev 13:7 KJV)
AC – He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
(Dan 11:42-43 KJV)
**Will come with a sword;
M – And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
(Rev 19:15 KJV)
M – And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
(Rev 19:21 KJV)
AC – (24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Luk 21:24 KJV
**Will have his own ‘marked’;
M – And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
(Rev 14:1 KJV)
M- Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
(Rev 19:7-9 KJV)
AC – And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(Rev 13:16-17 KJV)
AC – And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
(Rev 19:20 KJV)
**With great signs and wonders;
M – Which hast set signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, even unto this day, and in Israel, and among other men; and hast made thee a name, as at this day; And hast brought forth thy people Israel out of the land of Egypt with signs, and with wonders, and with a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with great terror;
(Jer 32:20-21 KJV)
M – I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me. How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.
(Dan 4:2-3 KJV)
AC – And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; (Luk 21:25 KJV)
AC – And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, (Rev 13:13 KJV)
** Will result in the death of those that do not worship Him (it/him).
M – And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
(Zec 14:12 KJV)
AC – And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (Rev 13:15 KJV)
**Culminate in a great and final battle
M – These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
(Rev 17:14 KJV)
M – And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
(Rev 19:11 KJV)
M – And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
(Rev 19:14 KJV)
AC – For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(Rev 16:14 KJV)
AC – And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
(Rev 19:19 KJV)
Can someone correct my homework please?
Hey Teresa, it looks like an A+ to me but I’m a freshman and wouldn’t want you to turn it in without a senior checking/correcting your homework
Thanks so much Inetta! I think I’m off with ‘being worshipped’ because the AC will direct the worship to the beast which I think is the image set up. I am still not clear on that, I have to review Scot’s material.
@Scot – You’re no doubt busy, but maybe you can throw out a few more questions or comments to keep us busy?…
Teresa,
It seems you have accurately identified the two seeds. The Seed of the Woman and the seed of the serpent.
I would give you an A+
Thank you brother @David,
I know I still have a lot to learn regarding this subject. As I mentioned previously, I have much to learn. I’m still foggy on the specifics. I had mentally lumped the beast, the false prophet and the AC into one. I’m now seeing that they are all anti-types, perhaps to the “3″ ways that YHVH represent Himself/His Word, (back off everyone, I’m not saying this is the “anti-trinity”) also I just realized that the Whore is the Anti-bride and the demons are “anti-angels” so to speak.
I need to review Scot’s study on this subject since he has the most comprehensive understanding that I’ve been able to find.
It doesn’t matter where I am in my walk, how long I’ve been walking on the lighted path, I am without a doubt, a toddler. I may try walking towards Abba but I veer and fall, but in His love, He lifts me up again to continue towards Him… I am so blessed and I love to brag on my daddy.
YHVH bless us all.
Shabbat Shalom!!
BTW…Scot, are you going to leave all of us in limbo? Is it close to the time when you can expound on all these thought/spirit provoking questions? Please say it is.
Duncan,
Thanks for that interview.
We should not be surprised by this. Bush began the process of tearing up the Constitution and then Obama finished the job and flushed it down the toilet. You are witnessing your tax dollars at work.
The question the congressman asks at the beginning is the one that has been being dodged since the garden. Which law/commands/instructions are we accountable for? Well, Abba gives the answer in the still small voice, His. We are to pray for the hearts of these men-mankind to be turned back to the Creator. Harvest is coming…
Amein – well said brother. Shalom.
Shalom sis
blessings in our Redeemer.
Your welcome, shalom sir
Great thoughts brother. You are spot on.
1. Ha-satan, the adversary.
2. 42 months prior to the return of Yeshua Messiah.
3. John 5:43
4. Yes.
5. Assuredly, and emphatically.
6. Emphatically, no.
7. Yes.
8. Unity differs from Singularity, Universality, and Coexistance in the same way that Agreement differs from Division, Dilution, and Tolerance.
9. Righteous admonition.
1. From where does the “man of sin” receive his authority\kingdom?
2. When?
3. Where in scripture does the idea of a “Anti-Messiah” who deceives “Jews\believers” into believing he is the true Messiah come from if not for a faulty application of the prefix “ante?”
4. Does the AC’s behavior also play a role in determining the usage of “ante” whether it be “instead of” versus in “opposition to?”
5. Is relying on what is visible and subsequently placing your trust, destiny in its hands ALSO the embodiment of an abrogation of faith?
6. Can YHWH be limited and as a result contained by his own creation?
7. Can and have people seen angels\messengers from heaven in and outside of scripture?
8. How does echad(unity) differ from singularity, universality and coexistence?
9. What doctrines within Judaism, Christianity and Islam rapidly propel us toward the direction of “unity” outside of truth?
Plug…………………………R u ready to tell us more Scot?? Love the post!!!
It is GREAT to hear from you guys…