Barak to Haaretz: Israel ready to cede parts of Jerusalem in peace deal

Ehud Barak has always vacillated between peace and security, dovishness and hawkishness, left wing and right wing. Even when he left south Lebanon, offered the Golan Heights to Hafez Assad and the Temple Mount to Yasser Arafat, he didn’t do this as a bleeding heart. He always spoke forcefully, talked about the importance of sobriety. He always spoke about how Israel must survive in a jungle. It must do so even now, on the eve of the peace summit in Washington. This time, however, Barak is surprisingly – even unusually – optimistic. Perhaps it is because he contributed quite a bit to the summit’s unveiling. Maybe it is due to the fact that the summit is his political lifejacket. The defense minister believes in the 2010 peace summit even more than the principals taking part in it. These past few weeks have been volatile, between the Galant document affair, the appointment of a new chief of staff, the meeting with Jordan’s King Abdullah and the sit-down with Mahmoud Abbas. And perhaps more than anything else, Barak was feverishly preoccupied with trying to push Netanyahu across the Rubicon, trying to convince him that there is no choice, trying to convert Benjamin Netanyahu from Yitzhak Shamir to Menachem Begin. Did he succeed? Up until the last minute, the man who has signed up to also take on the role of foreign minister doesn’t know whether he succeeded or not. Perhaps this is why he has chosen to make unequivocal, remarkable statements to Haaretz. Yet the last-minute-meeting that Barak held with Netanyahu prior to the premier’s departure for the United States fueled his optimism. When Barak said what he said from his office at the Defense Ministry headquarters in Tel Aviv, his sense was that there is a good chance that Netanyahu will surprise us. Ehud Barak, is there any chance that you and Benjamin Netanyahu will succeed in reaching peace with the Palestinians now, the same peace which you did not succeed in achieving in 2000 and Ehud Olmert did not succeed in achieving in 2008? “In the current reality that is encircling us, there are remarkable changes underway. Thirty years ago, the Arabs competed amongst themselves in spouting rejectionist slogans that were reminiscent of [the three "nos" at] Khartoum. Today the Arab states are competing amongst themselves in arguing over which peace initiative will be adopted by the international community. The same situation is taking place with us. When I returned from Camp David a decade ago, the most vocal critics of my “irresponsible” concessions were Ehud Olmert and Tzipi Livni. Take a look at where they are today. It doesn’t mean that the task is a simple one. The gaps are wide and they are of a fundamental nature. But I believe that there is a real chance today. If Netanyahu leads a process, a significant number of rightist ministers will stand with him. So what is needed is courage to make historic, painful decisions. I’m not saying that there is a certainty for success, but there is a chance. This chance must be exploited to the fullest. What are the principles of a peace deal that you believe can be agreed upon by the conclusion of the talks? “Two states for two nations; an end to the conflict and the end of all future demands; the demarcation of a border that will run inside the Land of Israel, and within that border will lie a solid Jewish majority for generations and on the other side will be a demilitarized Palestinian state but one that will be viable politically, economically, and territorially; keeping the settlement blocs in our hands; retrieving and relocating the isolated settlements into the settlement blocs or within Israel; a solution to the refugee problem [whereby refugees return to] the Palestinian state or are rehabilitated by international aid; comprehensive security arrangements and a solution to the Jerusalem problem.” What is the solution in Jerusalem? “West Jerusalem and 12 Jewish neighborhoods that are home to 200,000 residents will be ours. The Arab neighborhoods in which close to a quarter million Palestinians live will be theirs. There will be a special regime in place along with agreed upon arrangements in the Old City, the Mount of Olives and the City of David.” Does the terror attack near Beit Hagai prove the extent to which the current efforts for peace are useless? “This is a very serious incident, the likes of which we haven’t seen for a long time. The Israel Defense Forces and the Shin Bet security service are acting with all their strength to get their hands on those who perpetrated the attack. There will be those who will say that this is the result of weakness and that Netanyahu must return from Washington because they are killing Jews. Yet in looking at the situation in a level-headed way, there is no doubt that this is an attempt to harm the start of the peace talks. So while we are steadfastly safeguarding our security and waging a determined campaign against the perpetrators, we cannot be deterred from working toward the success of the peace negotiations.”

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/barak-to-haaretz-israel-ready-to-cede-parts-of-jerusalem-in-peace-deal-1.311356

Comments

James 01-09-2010, 06:54

How much influence did Barak Obama have in this?

Yahweh’g blood pressure must be heading upwards a few ticks over this and is probably sharpening his sword as I write this. It’s both exciting to see scripture being fulfilled because it just confirms how real it is. However, it is frightening as well when one considers that scripture says the saints will be giving into the hand of the Antichrist and that he will make wars against us for a time. Not only that, he will succeed in doing so for a time. Another holocaust that will make the last one look like child’s play.

May God refine us and make us so that he can see His reflection in us. May we keep our eyes and hearts turned to him and draw near Him with all our heart, soul, and mind.

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scot 01-09-2010, 09:19

the framework for this started years before Obama came into power…

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Observer 01-09-2010, 09:30

This is off topic, but somehow related since it has to do with peace treaty.

If 1 day for God = 1000 years for man. Why in Daniel 9 seven weeks = seven years?

“He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ” NIV – Bad translation, but I checked others too, with no help

How I read last night:

God made covenant of seven (seven thousand years) with all manking.
In the middle of this seven (3,500) God made the offering and sacrifices (by man) be stopped (Yeshua coming and the destruction of the temple).

The Adversary comes from the “other side” and set up the abomination and will reign until the time of his end comes.

I just can’t see the seven year peace treaty on this passage at all. Can somebody help me? Is there a topic about this?

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agrace 01-09-2010, 11:30

Well, if the “one week” is actually 7000 years, then we have to apply that to the whole passage, because that last week is part of the 70 total decreed. This would mean that the 67 and 7 mentioned in prior verses would equal 69×7000, a total of 483000 years.

Here are the verses with 1 week = 7000 years injected.

Dan 9:24 “490,000 years have been decreed for your people and for your holy city for putting an end to the transgression, for making an end of sin, for forgiving iniquity, for bringing in everlasting justice, for setting the seal on vision and prophet, and for anointing the Especially Holy Place.
Dan 9:25 Know, therefore, and discern that 49,000 years will elapse between the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until an anointed prince comes. It will remain built for 434,000 years, with open spaces and moats; but these will be troubled times.
Dan 9:26 Then, after the 434,000 years, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing. The people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood, and desolations are decreed until the war is over.
Dan 9:27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for 7,000 years. For half of the 7000 years he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

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agrace 01-09-2010, 11:42

Also – supporting scripture that the removal of sacrifices is a negative thing (also Dan 12 supports the idea that the abomination is set up half way through a “week of years”).

Dan 11:31 Armed forces will come at his order and profane the sanctuary and fortress. They will abolish the daily burnt offering and set up the abomination that causes desolation.

Dan 12:11 From the time the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Joel 1:13 Cohanim, put on sackcloth, and weep! Wail, you who serve at the altar! Come, lie in sackcloth all night long, you who serve my God! For the grain offering and drink offering are withheld from the house of your God.

Mat 24:15 So when you see the abomination that causes desolation spoken about through the prophet Dani’el standing in the Holy Place” (let the reader understand the allusion)…

I know those verses don’t address the “weeks of years” aspect of things, but I’m sure others can explain the Hebrew usage.

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Rodney 02-09-2010, 05:11

Observer, the Hebrew term is 70 “Shavua” which can mean sevens but is also the plural of “shavuot” which is in itself the plural of “weeks”. The “Feast of Weeks” is known as Shavuot (which is the masculine gender plural of Shabbat). As it was explained to me if you want to express the plural of shavuot the gender changes to feminine which makes it shavua.

Of course that means that the 70 “sevens” may in fact be 70 “Feasts of Shavuot” giving 70 years (1948 -> 2018).

Daniel’s 70 weeks are also told in reverse chronological order – one seven (the 70th, the first one we will celebrate with Messiah in Jerusalem), then seven (the last 7 years prior to the return of Messiah i.e. years 63 – 69) and 62 sevens. This year was the 63′rd celebration of Shavuot since Israel became a nation again in 1948.

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Larry 02-09-2010, 12:45

doesn’t the hebrew text use 70 shavueem and not 70 shavuot? I believe shavuot is feminine plural of shavua (week)… what’s the difference between shavueem and shavuot, just that one is masculine, the other feminine? why would Daniel (or the angel) use a reference to the feast of weeks and not another feast, just because of the word play shivieem shavueem (seventy weeks, which in Hebrew without vowel points spells identically)?

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Larry 02-09-2010, 12:47

from what I know -ot is feminine and -eem is masculine..

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Larry 02-09-2010, 12:49

I sense there is truth to these theories, but I have yet to see a correct and honest explanation/interpretation… they all more or less seem to stretch the text (not talking about you, because these were started a while ago by other people like Michael Rood and I would suspect even before him)…

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Observer 01-09-2010, 12:17

agrace,

I agree, sounds like a lot of years :) Maybe, in this case, a “week” would mean a ‘determined period’ or ‘a yearly cycle’, which makes sense.

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James 01-09-2010, 20:01

Obama said that the United States would be “unwavering” in her “support of Israel’s security” and that we are going to “push back against these kinds of terrorist activities.” Personally with his track record so far I wouldn’t trust him to provide security over a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. What bothers me is that he will most likely over promise, and under deliver and in the mean time WE as a nation will be punished for the actions of our “wicked king” whom we elected thanks to the godless liberals.

May God be merciful towards those of us who love Him until the time he calls us to literally lay down our lives so Christ can pick them back up for us as he has promised. Just look at Obama’s face, his expression is emotionless and his sincerity is about as deep as a glass of milk. God help him. He doesn’t fear Yeshuah now, but he will.

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Mike 01-09-2010, 13:26

My 2 cents on the weeks thing. : “God said to Moses, ‘Go to the people and tell them to prepare themselves today and tomorrow. Let them wash their clothing and hold themselves in readiness for the third day, because on the third day God will descend on the mountain of Sinai in the sight of all the people.” Ex.19:16.

If 2 days is 2000 years, we are close to the “third day”. Also, Jesus was resurrected. on the “third day” . Not quite sure how to merge that thought with the 70 weeks in Daniel. Oh well. Perhaps if I think on it a bit more, I’ll get back to ya :)

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James 01-09-2010, 17:01

Observer,

2 Peter 1:20 says this “knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

It would behoove us all to consider all prophecy from a Hebraic Perspective. Jesus was an Israelite, he was from the Tribe of Judah, which makes him a Jew AND he was called Rabbi, or Teacher. Being that was God in the “flesh” literally he was quite aware of both oral tradition and the written laws. The origin or our faith is Hebrew, the language our Lord spoke was Hebrew, he went to synagogue and followed the Law which was given to the Hebrews. The Apostles were Israelites (Hebrew) even Paul (aka) Saul was a Hebrew. We need to think like a Hebrew/Israelite and not the westerners we are.

When we try and inject what we “think” it means we are using exegesis (when we decide what we think scripture means) rather than using exegesis which is when we discover the authorial intent of the writer. If the passage doesn’t make sense yet, we need to dig deeper into scripture and make sure we are not adding to it. Authorial intent rules because…

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

The writers wrote what God inspired them to write. It’s our job to discover what the original Hebrew means and not apply what we think it means.

Hope this helps put the right spin on the direction of your research.

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James 01-09-2010, 17:11

Sorry eisegesis (injecting) exegesis (discovering the authorial intent)

One more thing. Revelation 19:10 says that Jesus Christ IS the spirit of prophecy. If we want to understand Prophecy we need to look for him First in the Torah and understand the Old Testament, then understand the New Testament. The Old is the foundation for the New they cannot exist without one another. To many times we go straight to Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation without having read the entire Old Testament. We need to understand the references in the Old for the language used in the New to make sense.

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Observer 01-09-2010, 18:12

Thank you for your replies.

We are watching PA and Israel coming together for a piece talk (or a chunk of Israel to Palestinians talk).I have been hearing about a 7 year covenant and I wonder if this is correct.

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James 01-09-2010, 19:51

Can you provide a link where they are mentioning a 7 year covenant please? That’s pretty hair-raising information. Rather alarming.

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Lisa 01-09-2010, 19:05

Daniel 9:27 is where the covenant is mentioned —

26“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off and have naught. And the people of a coming prince shall destroy the city and the set-apart place. And the end of it is with a flood. And wastes are decreed, and fighting until the end.

27“And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall put an end to slaughtering and meal offering. And on the wing of abominations he shall lay waste, even until the complete end and that which is decreed is poured out on the one who lays waste.”

The ‘people of a coming prince’…….that’s referring to AC right? I’ve heard some say it’s Messiah. But i thought ‘coming prince’ was Messiah Yeshua.

Also, the churches teach broadly that AC makes a peace agreement for 7 years and rules the WORLD. But verse 27 says ‘he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week’ – not ‘he shall make a covenant with the “whole world” for one week.

I always get a check in my Spirit when I read ‘with many’.

So, the AC makes a covenant with many – meaning …the 10 kings? But not the whole world…is that correct? If so, then AC doesn’t rule the world during the 7 years, but holds much power through the kings/nations?

Also, back in verse 26 – it says ‘And the end of it is with a flood. And wastes are decreed, and fighting until the end.’

Was there a flood? Or what could that mean –’ the end of it (meaning Jerusalem, right?) is with a flood’?

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GregM 01-09-2010, 23:18

Lisa,

Here is my take on what “ends with a flood” means. I believe that it is an outpouring of Holy Spirit. I believe that there is at least 4 layers to this prophecy. Here is a link to a chart I have been working on. There are some other links within the chart as well.

Any input is welcome.

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Rodney 02-09-2010, 05:36

Greg,

Great stuff! I don’t disagree with anything that you have there. I think there is a 5th layer – the 70 “Feasts of Shavuot” or 70 years between 1948 and 2018 – might be worth looking into how events in that timeframe fit in to the chart too.

1948 – Israel became a nation (the “decree”) (year 1)
62 years – brings us to 2009.
2010 is the 63′rd year – this year we expect the covenant to divide the land (the so called “peace treaty”) which will be broken in 3 1/2 years, signalling the beginning of the Great Tribulation – ending after Shavuot 2017 (being the 69th).
2018 – the first Shavuot celebrated with Messiah in Jerusalem (the 70th).

Possible? We’re still awaiting 2 signs – the confirmation of the covenant and the regional war in which God fights for Israel and gives them the victory over their enemies.

What do you think?

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jds 02-09-2010, 07:13

I thought the “decree” by the U.N. was 1947…

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Rodney 02-09-2010, 07:44

Actually the Balfour declaration came first in 1917 (which should have been a Jubilee year – I believe that was the year that General Allenby took Jerusalem). Remember that the key point of the Jubilee year is all land that has been sold or transferred to a new owner is returned to the original owners.

Then in 1947 came the UN resolution but Israel declared itself an independent sovereign state in 1948 (just before Shavuot of that year, if I have my information right).

In 1967 (50 years after 1917) Israel took back East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights (another Jubilee). The next Jubilee on that reckoning should be 2017, when we will hopefully see Messiah take Jerusalem!

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jds 02-09-2010, 07:50

cool

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GregM 02-09-2010, 20:56

I have that layer in the chart Rodney, but I have it labeled as 70 sevens of high Sabbaths. There are 7 high Sabbaths each year, so it is covering the same 70 years you spoke of, that is, 1948-2018.

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Rodney 03-09-2010, 07:19

Right you are. I needed to read it more carefully :-) .

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Lisa 02-09-2010, 20:18

Greg, I finally was able to read this and wanted to thank you for posting the link to the 70 week timetable. It really helped me understand the layers in an organised way. Thank you so much brother.

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Lisa 02-09-2010, 07:48

Thanks Greg and Rodney – gotta digest this a bit now:).

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Lisa 01-09-2010, 19:08

weirdbeardette,

Would it be okay to ask if long paragraphs are broken up —- it’s difficult on my eyes to read it when it all runs together. Hope I didn’t cause any offense by asking….

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scot 01-09-2010, 19:56

It was copied and pasted…good point though…

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Observer 01-09-2010, 20:24

I am sorry. I didn’t hear on the news, but on the prophecy interpretation, that it will have a 7 year treaty.

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BB 02-09-2010, 06:35

Exactly Rodney! You are right on. One thing is for sure we will know soon, very soon

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jds 02-09-2010, 07:25

Some thoughts have been going through my head lately in light of Daniel 9:4.

Dn 9:4 . And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

The only covenant mentioned in context of Daniel 9 is YHWHs.

Then consider 9:26:

Dn 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And also consider the purpose and scope of the prophecy:

Dn 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Those are all things related to Y’shua, right?

It seems to me that the purpose of the Great Tribulation is to create such a blatent transparent dichotomy between God’s ways and the world’s ways when the Spirtual realm cracks open in front of all that riding the fence becomes impossible. The tribulation is there to cause people to repent, to come back to the covenant (Daniel 9:4).

I submit that recently people have been coming back to the covenant (Daniel 9:4) massively.

Y’shua was cut off in the midst of the week at the cross, while He was trying to “strengthen” (gabar) the covenant with His people by walking out the correct interpretation of the law of Moses.

The remaining of the 70th week is reserved for the end in which His people are called back to the covenant once again. Perhaps that really means the Sabbath for the most part since that is the eternal sign of the covenant.

Is it necessary according to Scripture for the AC to strengthen a covenant for 7 years? If so, how does he manage to strengthen that covenant for 7 years?

shalom,
j

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Stephen 02-09-2010, 08:15

Well said!

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GregM 02-09-2010, 13:13

I agree that Dan 9:27 could very well be talking about Y’shua and YHWH’s covenant.

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debra &scott 02-09-2010, 07:40

We have been working on a timeline all summer and would love some feedback. The first part is time sensitive.

It uses the timeline that Michael Rood made as the foundation. But it lacked the detial we desired, so working backwords in Revelations (like you would a maze) we ploted the events as discribed. Understanding that the moedim are a patern for understanding ALL of Ya’s timing, and the themes of the moed match perfictly the themes in the book of Revelations, and in the order written in the Book.

We love any imput or questions you may have.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10880370/Rev%20T.L.%20Ver%201.1%20%281%29.xlsx

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debra 02-09-2010, 07:57

Can we have a thread dealing with Huricane Earl? Does anyone else see this as another Katrina. Retribution for US part in giving away land or worse?

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debra 02-09-2010, 08:32

OK everyone, I have been trying to post this where everyone will see it. But I am a bonehead with this stuff. SOOO here it comes again :0), This is a timeline that Scott and I have been working on this summer. It is overlayed onto MR’s timeline. He didn’t have the detail we were looking for so we filled in the blanks. We started backwards and layed in the moed and found that the themes matched. We are looking for input from youall. You people are our only contact with believers. this stuff is time sensitive ( possibly ). Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thanks Lisa for your response, hope you find it interesting.
Deb & Scotttt (heehee) note all the ts.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10880370/Rev%20T.L.%20Ver%201.1%20%281%29.xlsx

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Lisa 02-09-2010, 19:58

Thanks Debra. I had a look again (this one is the same as the other you posted?).

Is there a corresponding gregorian date on the document that I’m just not seeing? Or do I need to compare to another calendar…if so – which calendar did you use?

I get a bit befuddled with the calendar thing – but would like to understand the timeline in terms of what day we’re on NOW and be able to track when looking at the document so that I can more fully understand the timeline. Hope that makes sense. Yah bless you for sharing your efforts in putting this together for all of us.

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Debra 03-09-2010, 07:44

There are gregorian dates on the calander however they are hidden, They grow increasingly inaccurate because of the differances in the counting.If you need to find them, click the upper left corner of the chart above the number 1 in row one collunm A. And then right click unhide. Look at the first set of moedim, They start this year on Tishri 1, about 8 days from now. The hidden dates on the timeline are for referance only since we are working on His timetable. We are looking at the eclipes for correction in the calendar, we CAN know thease things because, we have technology cappable of placing these events precicly. Thanks for the tips and we will be correcting this in the next version. Love and Shabbot.

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Observer 02-09-2010, 08:50

70 weeks = 70 Feasts of Shavuot = 70 years

That is what I was missing. Thank you guys.

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GregM 02-09-2010, 13:29

A bit of a twist on that could be 70 weeks = 70 sevens = 70 sevens of High Sabbaths, seven High Sabbaths each year = 70 years.

May 15 1948 Israel becomes a nation, and the count starts. The next day is Shavuot, the first High Sabbath of that seven. Then comes Trumpets (2), Atonement (3), 1st day of Sukkot (4), Last day of Sukkot (5), First Day of Unleavened Bread (6), Last Day of Unleavened Bread (7)….After you move through this cycle of seven 70 times you have 70 years.

This is just a slightly different way of looking at it.

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Rodney 02-09-2010, 09:31

Just in case anyone’s not really familiar with the names of the Feasts of The Lord, Shavuot is commonly known in English as Pentecost (from the Greek Pente=50, Cost = Count) because it is the 50th day after First Fruits.

The instructions given to Moses were to count 7 complete Sabbaths (giving 49 days) and the “morrow after the 7th Sabbath” was the 50th day, hence Shabbat -> Shavuot.

The counting of Shabbat is a picture of counting the Shmittah or Sabbath years (every 7th year the land was to have its rest and slaves were to be set free) and the counting to Shavuot is a picture of the Jubilee.

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Lisa 02-09-2010, 20:01

Thanks so much, Rodney, for giving those definitions again. I’m still trying to learn all the Hebrew words, and it’s beginning to sink in slowly, but I still have to look things up because some of the Hebrew Feast names aren’t ‘set’ in my brain yet.

Reply

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