The Gift of Tongues (Netzari)
There have been so many movements within Christendom concerning the gift of tongues. What is the gift of tongues? Is it the gift of speaking in a different language? Is it a gift of speaking a heavenly language?
Since the NT Scriptures were not canonized at the time of Acts 2, then where in the Tanakh does it support the gift of tongues?
26 August 2010
34 Comments
Leave a Reply
Latest Blog Comments
David,
There is nothing in the emails that “those...
By April
Thank you Sister Teresa,
It was silly. You didn't...
By David (Editor)- April, Lisa, scotty,
I believe the adversary is trying...
By David (Editor) - Lisa,
Post the words of the emails, you have...
By April 
I have never called anyone a liar or...
By scotty-taylor
Gman, that's wonderful that Abba was so faithful...
By Lisa (Editor)
Recently Active Sheeple
Who is logged in right now?
Comments
Tongues is an expressive prayer language inspired by the Spirit of the Living Elohim that No man understands , in the spirit he speaks mysteries that “no man” understands.
Hey yall Im glad this came up I’d like to hear what more of you have to say about this. Ive had some strange experiences with tongues but havent really understood its nature.
For example, my sister was having some demonic dreams a couple of weeks back and kept waking everyone up in the middle of the night. The last time it happened I awoke to her screaming and before I knew it I was up and marching across the hall to her room and it was just spilling out of my mouth very heavily. It seemed almost like an auto-defense or something I didnt know exactly what I was saying but it felt very strongly like I was rebuking the force behind the nightmares…it all happened so fast once it was over the back of my head just felt like it was on fire…the next morning I got up and started getting rid of books and things I could find that were of a negative spirit just to make sure there werent any open doors we were leaving for the advesary.
So when is it appropriate to use tongues? I know the scripture says not to suppress the spirit but at the same time I know everything is supposed to be done in an orderly fashion not leading to confusion. I did not have an interpretation for what I was saying and I know I can control it because I’ve done it before. The thing is, it all happened so fast I didnt really have a chance to think about what I was doing.. so was I wrong for what I did??? It wasnt my intention to be making a scene…
Involuntary prayer … that is sometimes very forceful as warfare… sometimes out of a stone cold sleep. Sometimes just brought on by intense prayer and a close proximity to the Rauch, and is high praise. He lead captivity captive and gave gifts to men.
1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Shabbat Shalom Everyone,
I don’t mean to be rude and intrude on this topic about another one, but I don’t know any other way to ask for your help.
I am very new to this and continue to be very easily swayed by folks more learned than myself.
I went out on a limb and mentioned keeping Sabbath and the feasts, and avoiding pork, and was shot down by someone quoting Col. 2. He called Hebrew Roots a cult.
I understand Paul wrote this to a church of mostly Gentiles and it sounds like he is telling them NOT to be concerned about “Jewish” things. I understand the parts about angels and cult-like behavior, but can’t come up with a defense for the Sabbath, feasts, and dietary parts.
I thought if I turned it around and looked at it from the context of who it was written to, it would make sense to me, but it was written to a mostly Gentile church….that confused me.
Could someone start a discussion on Colossians 2. I am very sad right now. I blew it.
Here is more than you can stand…
http://profoundprophecy.com/2010/08/colossians-2/
even our pre-trib Christian friends are waking up (some of them)… they have an article on coloss.2 on their main raptureready page… I haven’t read the whole thing… but it seemed correct…the author concluded that the sabbath and feasts are for all believers today… I was stunned! Praise Abba!
A act of eating | a drinking| a part | Feast | new moons | Sabbaths
A recent study of mine regarding Paul.
I think I have found the answer to Col2:12 , but this may also fly in the face of your doctrines if you believe that Gentiles need to be circumcised.
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, putting off the body of sin of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Just as the council at Jerusalem said that Gentiles , didn’t need to be circumcised to be saved, but to abstain from fornication , idols , meats strangled in blood , and blood.
These Gentiles already had , Messiah , were baptized already in his name , and rather than be circumcised in the flesh , Paul is saying they already are circumcised without hands.
I was thinking about this this morning … and it hit me.
What does circumcision have to do with eating drinking , feast , new moons and Sabbaths?
It has to do with access. If you recall Peter was taken to task by Paul , for dis-fellowshiping the Gentile believers , in the presence of the Believing Pharisees.
An in Torah .. it’s clear no circumcision , no Seder.
Exd 12:43 And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This [is] the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
Exd 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
Paul is declaring they are circumcised, yet with out hands , and as such meet the requirements to †EAT THE PASSOVER†to †Drink the Cup†to partake in a Feast, a new moon or Sabbath.
Check out the actual Greek in the passage
Paul is not writing “let no man judge you for not keeping them “. He’s telling you, you are circumcised , you qualify , so don’t let them separate you !
Look at this , “Therefore†is the conclusion of the prior passage; As a result of the fact you are circumcised, having your transgressions blotted out etc…
The Result is they have fulfilled Exodus 12:48.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Greek
Μὴ οὖν τις ὑμᾶς κÏινέτω á¼Î½ βÏώσει á¼¢ á¼Î½ πόσει á¼¢ á¼Î½ μέÏει ἑοÏτῆς á¼¢ νουμηνίας
ἢ σαββάτων
Transliteration
mÄ“ oun tis hymas krinÅ en brÅsis Ä“ en posis Ä“ en meros heortÄ“ Ä“ neomÄ“niaÄ“ sabbaton
Definitions copied from Strongs
Not | therefore | certain ones | you | separate | act of eating | or | in | a drinking | or | in | a part | a feast day | or | newmoon | or | Sabbath
Don’t therefore let certain ones have you separated in acts of eating or in a drinking or in partaking of a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath.
The closer I looked at the Greek the more I’m convinced the text was twisted in English to say anything but what it meant in the Greek.
So in context , Paul is telling , these Gentiles in Colossae , they ARE Circumcised, they have met the requirements for passover , and can fellowship in Eating and Drinking and partaking in Feast Days and new-moons , and Sabbaths, and NOT to Let these Certain Ones ( Translated no man) separate or judge them .
And we know who those Certain Ones are:
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man ( greek. tis -certain ones )spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Torah is not : Philosophy , vain deceit , or tradition , and it is not of the rudiments of the world, it was given by Messiah to Moses at Mt Sinai. (Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: ) Christians that equate this with Torah are really treading on dangerous ground, IMHO.
The Certain ones , are the party of Circumcision , that want to usurp the liberty of these new believers into traditions of Pharisaical Judaism , that are rudiments of the World.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
These Certain ones are not teaching Torah , they are teaching for commandments the doctrines of men.
Just a glimpse into the World of Judaism will show you how true this is.
I can only conclude , in context , Col 2:16 , is not a “get out of Jail free†card to NOT keep Passover , Seders , partaking in Feast , new moon or Sabbaths . Contrarily it’s a permission slip to partake in them , and not let someone judge you as uncircumcised , sinful and a foreigner.
But the text does , indicate , as I read it, that in fact , having Believed on Messiah , Putting off the body of sin through Christ ( acts 15) has in every way met the requirement for circumcision without hands.
That sounds reasonable, and is worth meditating on. Thank you Scot.
I mean thank you clearvoice.
As I understand this more , it’s really quite basic, the substance of things hoped for is Messiah . The feast the new moons the Sabbaths all teach us about the power and grace of Messiah . So partaking in them is certainly good and holy, the teach us the goal of Torah, just how to be like Messiah. And it down correctly is a source of joy, not a burden. His commandments are not grievous.
People who depict Christians who are learning about Messiah by being Torah observant as a cult, lack understanding. They are blinded by tradition and they themselves are building the rebuilding the middle wall of separation that divides the body of Messiah based on man made doctrines. They are no different than the Jews who disallowed the Gentiles from partaking in the covenants and promises of God. They insert their tradition in place of the instructions and teachings of Torah, nullifying the commandments of Elohim.
They are clouds without rain, hope with no substance teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Every thing in this universe is held together by the laws of physics, and the Creator gave the Torah to hold together a holy people , the body of Messiah that would be called by His name, it is through the Torah that we are sanctified and washed, and our way is established. Having Faith in Messiah , enables the sinner to Return to the right paths, because our sins are forgiven , we can return to the WAY, and we can establish the paths of old. If we lay hold of his covenant , we will be called the repairers of the breach.
Christ died granting repentance to Israel.
Abba is standing in with you classic1, remember He is our defence and He keeps His truth forever. Stand firm and the light of truth will prevail.
Thanks everyone. I didn’t realize there was a previous discussion posted. I didn’t even search, I just came home and typed because I knew could count on all of you to help me. I paniced. I will pour through all of it.
Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me. I think to myself, “All of the pastors, theologians, and believers I have known for 30 years can all be deceived. I’m the crazy one.” I used to know “all the answers”, now I’m a mess. UUGGGGG
Classic1,
I know how you feel… I felt like I lost my salvation when I kept Sabbath for the first time and skipped church service (not that church service is evil). No one should guilt trip you or manipulate you and quench your fire to seek YHWH and His truth.
I had a mentor who pushed rabbinic things on me (and has repented) but during the time, I knew something was wrong but thought I was the one crazy not him. I didn’t believe that he could be wrong. It really messed me up. Praise Abba no man can stand against His truth =)
typos…darn it. “I knew I could count” and “30 years can’t all be deceived”
For this cause, I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord, Yeshua the Messiah, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on eretz is named, 16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that you may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man; 17 that Messiah may dwell in your hearts through faith; to the end that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be strengthened to comprehend with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know Messiah’s love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled to all the fullness of God.
1 Shim`on Kefa, a servant and apostle of Yeshua the Messiah, to those who have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Yeshua the Messiah: 2 Grace to you and shalom be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Yeshua our Lord, 3 seeing that his divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and virtue; 4 whereby he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.
12 Moshe said to the LORD, “Behold, you tell me, ‘Bring up this people:’ and you haven’t let me know whom you will send with me. Yet you have said, ‘I know you by name, and you have also found favor in my sight.’ 13 Now therefore, if I have found favor in your sight, please show me now your ways, that I may know you, so that I may find favor in your sight: and consider that this nation is your people.” 14 He said, “My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.” 15 He said to him, “If your presence doesn’t go with me, don’t carry us up from here. 16 For how would people know that I have found favor in your sight, I and your people? Isn’t it in that you go with us, so that we are separated, I and your people, from all the people who are on the surface of the eretz?” 17 The LORD said to Moshe, “I will do this thing also that you have spoken; for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name.” 18 He said, “Please show me your glory.”
Studying the common understandings of these portions that have to do with being filled with Abba Father. The gift of praying in the Spirit is referred to by Jude on or about vs.20 having to do with keeping yourself in the love of YHWY.
Is it just me or is Paul waxing into a description of multiple dimensions ?
“18 may be strengthened to comprehend with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know Messiah’s love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled to all the fullness of God.”
Emphasizes “May Comprehend” , then describes “FOUR Dimensions!” , further describing Love as surpassing knowledge…
Just the herbage here is no light reading if you stopped and actually comprehended what is being said.
Just a mental note I made about this text.
oops “verbiage” … herbage doesn’t enter into the picture… at least not anymore.
Learning what it takes for the Seed to bear fruit. And we experience His love and fullness as we walk as He walked. His grace is sufficient to destroy the works of the devil.
Is tongues a NT principle only? Many teach that it is.
No, it was not unknown in Jewish society even prior to the time of Yeshua. It was sometimes used as a teaching technique by rabbis and there are instances of it recorded in rabbinic literature (only they don’t call it “speaking in tongues” – the Hebrew term is nigun (nigoon – spelling??).
You may notice that no-one was surprised by what happened at the Feast of Pentecost recorded in Acts 2, apart from the fact that the “gentiles” were doing it too. No-one asked, “what is going on?” They asked, “How come the gentiles are getting this as well…”.
Ningun…
Brad Scott does a teaching on that. A friend of mine is actually studying on it. Isn’t this a bit Kabbalistic?
Yes
I haven’t personally seen Brad do this but many speak in cirlces regarding peshat, remez, drash and sod in an effort to explain away the clear, literal and surface level meaning of a text. It is wicked…while many things are cyclical, many are not. Think it not odd that MOST Kabbalistic\Rabbinic circles are TOTALLY in the the dark regarding where we are in time because of this dreamy, ethereal method of watering down what is plainly written…explaining away things we find troublesome.
Bottom line is, if I say we are at the end of days and another says or hints (most often) that we aren’t…one of us is lying. Period…
I’m a friend of both Scot’s , and have gleaned much from both. I also profoundly take issue with culling out the gifts , as they were meant to edify the body. “Forbid not to speak with tongues”, Paul knew that would be a desire of some teachers, so he addressed it for what it was.
Is prophecy abused? Are healings faked? Is scripture twisted? And So are the gifts, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater!
spot on clear, the like kind fruit from the seed of the whole counsil of Abba is what satifies the thirst and hunger for Him.
We all do well to remember WB’s Bookends analogy.
Duncan said:
“WB’s Bookends analogy.”
What is that Duncan?
We need a diet rich from Genesis through Revelation
Not just the beginning or just the ending, but both. Oh! He is the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last…
From the things I’ve witnessed from the time I was a small child, tongues scared me personally. I knew deep in my Spirit what I witnessed in most instances was demonic and I wanted no part of it.
I was warned as a small child by my grandmother not to fall for false teachers urging me to just utter syllables ‘so the holy ghost could come on me’ kinda thing. And that, for the most part, has been my experience with others who have spoken in tongues (not all – but most).
A couple of years ago, a man told me that if I didn’t receive the ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’, then there was something very wrong in my walk with Messiah. This wasn’t very long after I’d spent much time in prayer and much time seeking YHWH to know if tongues was a gift He was still giving. The answer I believe I received, through Scripture and praying was that He does still give this gift – but not all are given this gift.
I then asked Abba if He wanted me to have this gift – to please give it to me, but please don’t frighten me. I was so afraid that if my heart wasn’t right, that something demonic could eek its way in and I trusted Abba to protect me.
To this day, I’ve never received this gift. Maybe my heart isn’t right. I don’t know. If that’s the case, I want it to be right.
I don’t have a particular desire to speak in tongues. But, if Abba wanted to use me in some prophetic way – or just have me speak in tongues in prayer – then I would accept and receive that.
I know what the Scriptures say on this topic. So I believe it is a gift and it is Scriptural. There is a time and a place and an orderly way tongues are used (prophetically with an interpreter, or in prayer). But I also believe the adversary has mimicked this like he does everything else, and made a mockery – leading people astray.
Please…if I’m wrong or misguided on something – please show me (with Scripture). The topic of tongues – and the things people have charged me with, has done my head in, in the past.
Lisa,
That is spot on, I would only add that in my experience when I had faith from Abba’s word hearing about Y’shua giving us the Holy Spirit when we ask and that when we WILL (in sincerety) to pray in other tongues, He will give the utterances (when you will.) It is a communion, a trust of you and our Creator YHWY.
It is sad that holy things get mis-used, but we are to trust YHWY.
Thanks Duncan – that was a very edifying response.
I feel so unworthy of His Gifts.
I will tell you there are times it is inspired, some times it’s rote , kind of like praying in English ( or any native language I suppose). Sometimes I try to force something that is just not there , and sometimes I just could not stop it if I wanted to and feel an urge, an unction, to pray in tongues and then it flows like living water, and about 90 percent of the time, I will pray after in English some of the most beautiful prayers I’ve ever heard. Sometimes I pray directly in English in the same inspired way, no tongues, just inspired prayer with the Rauch so near you can feel it.
You know when you pray by rote, and your just praying in vain repetition, it’s the same way with tongues. Sometimes you just have to realize , I’m trying to pray the same prayer that worked yesterday , but today I need to take a different tact. The winds have changed the needs are different , maybe I just need to listen today , or read a psalm, maybe I’ll just start out acknowledging what a worm I am , and go from there. What does our High Priest want to work in the body today, He’s the mediator let him have his way.
There is one thing that I can Identify with Paul … What then, I will pray with the Spirit , I will pray with the understanding also , I will sing with the Spirit, I will sing with the understanding also .
No boasting , but I know what he’s talking about in an experiential way, because I’ve experienced the workings or the Spirit in that exact way.
Good post! praise Yah!
Wow – I really appreciate my brothers and sisters. Yah bless you.