Maintaining Discipline among the Body of Mashiach, (By David)
Often we are confronted with the unpleasant task of sanctioning one of our fellowship who has wandered into error. Matthew 18 gives us instructions on how to confront a brother who has trespassed against us. Does this apply if one trespasses against a brother who cannot defend themselves?
Scripture gives us many examples of these and similar occurrences. It behooves us to know what is required of us. Let’s make this into a learning experience so our actions remain Scriptural. What say you?
01 November 2009
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Serafima,
Blessings to you sister. Please forgive me for any part that I may have played in your distress. I was fearful that there would be folks listening that would be turned away over the conversation.
I felt, however, that I had no choice but to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the righteous children, of which you are one. I did not intend that anyone get hurt in the process.
The enemy works without rest. he will enter in at every possible access. his goal is to kill, steal, and destroy. he loves to cause division among brethren. If we allow him an opening he will come in and use it to hurt others and try and destroy souls. I know your faith is strong Serafima. I love you in Yeshua. If there is ever any thing I can help you with, please e-mail me at, drnowlin@bendbroadband.com. I wrote your e-mail down and I will try to stay in touch.
Many blessings b’shem Yeshua HaMashiach!
David
Chris,
Not the defense of the truth has upset me, but the way you were trying to convince us so categorically that we are wrong and we are sectarians and you are following the truth. How can you be so sure? Reading all that men’s writings or reading God’s Word? We try to follow God same sincere like you and I think we should do that without ofenses. The whole truth for now only God knows and we will find it when the time will come. Until then we should follow the Whole Word, not just parts, that are convenient for us. Nobody was criticizing you when you did that, but when you tried to convince our brothers and sisters that we have to follow some men. Why do you think that the works of that men are more important then the Word itself ? Aren’t you totally sure that God’s words are true? I was so happy when you told us that you start studying the Old Covenant. Only very soon you were refering again to others writings, neglecting God’s simple path. The HR explaines our grafting in the olive tree of Israel just perfect. Why is boddering you that so much? Any other ideas, like dispensationalism and the superriority of gentiles never convinced me. All the pieces fit perfect when we base our understanding on the HR. Try to explain the bible by the bible. To me it is very clear that I am a descendent from Avraam and I know that the best from my affinity to the whole concept of the bible. To much knolledge makes your head big , but your heart gets cold. Even if my blood doesn’t have any drops of Avraam’s blood, I am sure that I am part of Israel, bejing grafted by my Faith in Yeshua. What is so difficult to understand? Look at all that people who don’t have the faith : you try to convince them that they are wrong and they can’t be convinced. They even don’t want to open a bible. It happens with me every day. They always are busy when it comes to do that. They can be Jewish by blood, but without faith, they are not part of Israel. But by faith, even a non-Jewish becomes Israel. Are you having peace with your self thinking that you are a Gentile and all the Jews have to be punished because they were born Jewish? I feel good thinking that I am Israel and I will be trated like Israel even in bad times, not only good ones. I am proud to follow God’s Law and be part of all the rights and all the punishment God gives me for my disobedience. Jesus died on the cross not to escape us an escape, but to teach us how important is to follow God’s laws.
This is what I had to tell you Chris in love .
serafima
Serafima,
Amen.
I sure felt the same way you do.
I use to visit another blog where this muslim guy kept coming on there and causing disruption. He would leave for a while but always made his way back in to start all over again.
Deborah, Muslim guy? I didn’t know that…
Serafima,
If I have contributed to your distress as well, please forgive me. I didn’t mean any harm. And if I did cause harm, I ask for your forgiveness. Your absolutely right concerning our identity in Yeshua and that we (non-jews) ARE Israel by grafting in.
Serafima I loved your quote when you said: “I am proud to follow God’s Law and be part of all the rights and all the punishment God gives me for my disobedience.” Amen Sister.
Chris,
The reason for my question in the other thread was twofold.
1. To see your reaction.
2. To try and show you the duplicity of your arguments.
You said,
“I will try not to be offended by the freemason comment.”
Good for you.
Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
And,
“If you knew me at all you’d realize right away what a ridiculous question that is. NO WAY!”
You are right, I do not know you very well. The only information I have about you is how you present yourself in this blog.
That is why I asked you the question.
I do know baptists, SBC, hardshell, freewill, independent, you get the picture. My real dads family and my wives side of the family are all baptists. As I mentioned before, I was a baptist when the Spirit in me opened my eyes.
And I know freemasons. There is a wealth of information provided to us from defectors that give us insights my baptist friends did not like to share or comment on.
This is exactly why I left the SBC and started to go to an Independent baptist church.
You told Clearvoice,
Clearvoice,
“None of my leaders or prominent church members are or have been masons. When I speak out against free masonry I never have any trouble. You have embraced a stereo type that is not rooted in reality. Sorry.”
BTW, thank you Clearvoice for your documentation that is irrefutable.
I have not “embraced a stereo type that is not rooted in reality”. And your “leaders” The convention, have embraced and condoned freemasonry. Sorry
Can you not see how your guilt by association can work both ways?
Mike
Serafima,
Dear sister,
His words are always better than mine, so
Joh 14:23 Yeshua answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Joh 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
Rejoice,
Mike
Deborah,
).
people can get confused here about the muslim from your other blog…Chris is not a muslim. And I think some muslims can be convince easier that they are wrong. You are so sweet!
Thank you to all my brothers and sisters who wrote to me. I am impressed by your worries and I am so overwhelmed by your love. I want to asure you that I am ok. I am not distressed. You didn’t harm my faith. Yeshua is close to my heart, I keep following Him till the end. Only I wished for an other kind of ambient (surrounding) on this blog. I am glad to find that you agree with my opinion. Off subject, I used to tell my son Larry that I am afraid that in the Tribulation they will cutt my head because I am very sensitive, but I hope by growing in faith day by day I will be strong enough to accept the ultimate sacrifice in the name of My Father. For now I am checking my neck from time to time to be sure that my head is still there
Shallom to everybody,
Love in Yeshua ,
serafima
Yes Mike,
That was perfect and in time. Thank you brother.
Be blessed.
I want to thank all of you for your contribution to this blog. I have learned from each of you. It is good to see the Father working in all.
It is good for us to be challenged for our belief in what the Scriptures teach us. It causes us to dig deeper and to study His Word, praying for understanding and guidance as we come out of the false teachings and lies we have each encountered in our walk.
The Father has begun a good work in us and He will not fail.
Yes Shelemiah,
You are so right!
God Bless you Dear.
The spirit on the blog has become sweeter today. It will continue to do so because our ABBA will see to it. He tries and tests us to see if we will indeed walk in His Ways and Keep His Commandments and above all, honor and glorify Yeshua and His Kadosh Name!
We all need to pray earnestly for all who have been following this blog and have become disheartened by its tone as of late. There have been some names absent lately. I especially miss our brother Larry and pray that all is well with him and his soon return to our fellowship.
Words cannot express my love for everyone here. Those who would trouble us will be silenced by our Blessed Father! I am not speaking of any man but of the spirits who trouble men and use them to divide. These need our prayers.
Shalom alekheim my brothers and sisters.
David,
Thanks for your words. I wrote this to Roberta and all yesterday
:
Roberta,
Thanks for sharing that, awesome! I also have something to share. I have a few friends that I’ve been sharing some things with from Scriptures for many months. Sunday night, “somehow†it was organized (I think God did) without me really realizing what it’s gonna be, an evening by the pool and bbq with these friends where I was put in the “situation†to talk to them all night (many hours) many things from Scriptures, prophecy, Torah, Antichrist, etc. I think the Ruach was there, it was my first time that I “taught†like that to a few people. It was amazing, they were all asking me questions and listening to me, though I NEVER taught many people anywhere before . I felt a little bit embarrassed though because I don’t like to be the center of attention and I don’t want to appear all knowledgeable or like a leader. Now these friends want to organize an even bigger meeting. We were joking when we said that we’re probably gonna start a synagogue or home-fellowship. They keep telling me, you need to teach, we have to help you or do something so you can teach. I’m like no, no, I can’t do that, I’m not that kind of person. I’m the type that sits all the way in the back in synagogues.
It is so blessed to have an online Messianic Fellowship. I truly believe that this is as close as it will get to a Fellowship of like-minded/hearted believers since where I live there is no fellowship.
It is like a place of refuge to encourage, discuss, and just love on other believers of Messiah Yeshua. Praise YHVH!
YHVH thank you so much for your love, sacrifice, and truth. And for all on this blog. I pray over those on here that are having trials or are saddened in spirit that in the Name of Yeshua they will rejoice and that the Joy of YHVH will be their strength. B’Shem Yeshua HaMashiyach Melach Yisrael, Omain.
Yall are my only fellowship and I’ve been so blessed by all of your comments and teachings. I look forward everyday to the discussions, as I learn so much. I’ve tried other sites but this group is a great fit for me.
Shalom,
Karen
Larry,
That’s wonderful brother! Please don’t close your mind to doing it because it may be the leading of the Ruach HaKodesh. Remember Moses told YHVH, “I can’t speak.” YHVH said to him, “Who made mouths?” We can do all things through Messiah who strengthens us. If YHVH wants a fellowship to start he will supply all that is needed. He will chose the speakers, the Elders, The Shammashim, the facility, everything! He is rich! All the gold is His! I can tell from your posts on this blog that you have the ability to do what ever YHVH wants you to do. Just prayfully walk through the open doors.
It is really good to hear from you Larry. I really missed you on the blog. You have always been a real encouragement to me. I guess I must have overlooked your post yesterday.
Shalom aleikhem Larry.
David,
Thanks brother. I appreciate your kind and encouraging words. I always look forward to reading your posts, they are a blessing to me and to the blog. Shalom alekhem b’shem Yahshua.
Thank you Larry. Your story is pretty cool. There are a lot of people hungry for the truth.
Roberta,
“There are a lot of people hungry for the truth.”
Thank you. Yes, it is amazing.
There is a much better attitude and spirit here. Thank you all.
Maybe we could agree to disagree with those who do not see eye to eye and try and find common ground. As someone pointed out earlier, in a little while…all will see and all will know. Till then, may Abba open ALL our eyes to His truth with love and respect for each other.
Shalom
Shalomey Homey
I had a thought that fulfilling the law , is not equivalent to ignoring it. Seems like a redundant thing to say on this site, but something is warning me that in the presence of the Almighty , keeping those statutes and ordinances will be really important. We are supposed to learn righteousness once we are justified. We move from Justification to Sanctification by learning Torah. Hearing ( Understanding) and Doing the will of the Father, acting by faith in doing the will of YHVH.
Our infractions are forgiven , yes that is true, but the commandments are still for instruction in righteousness. Not to pick on our brothers who don’t feel Torah is needed any longer, but free willing it , flying by the seat of their pants , haplessly walking in darkness , will not be helpful to them in the presence of Adoni Elohim.
True Messiah is our righteousness , but we don’t continue in Sin. At some point we have to grow up and hear and do the will of the Father. They are not mutually exclusive.
Submitting to mans ordinances is error , and we should not be ashamed for resisting those that would add to the Torah either.
These scriptures were brought to my mind today , as I meditated on the Word.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
These scriptures certianly bring about a fearful reality, in the presence of the Ruak Hakodesh. This is no doubt after the ascension of Messiah.
Exd 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exd 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name [is] in him.
I’m being impressed upon , that when the Ruak Hakodesh is poured out in this great measure in the latter rain , many will not be able to bear it.
That many people need to learn the fear of YHVH. And they need to be sanctified by the Word, so they don’t do anything like what happened here.
That the Torah is for Sanctification for the Kings and Priest of YHVH.
I believe , It’s going to be a determining factor in separation of the wheat and the tares. As the scriptures say without Holiness , no man shall see YHVH.
So pressing into the kingdom will require some changes in our thoughts, and the preparation for the inheritance is found in the instructions of the Word.
clearvoice,
You said, “That the Torah is for Sanctification for the Kings and Priest of YHVH.”
That is so true! How can we expect to be put in positions of Kingship or leadership or to act as Priests in the Kingdom if we can’t obey the Torah ourselves? At least to the best of our abilities in our sin nature.
I try to imagine myself in the position of Kingship over even a very tiny place and people and I have to say that as I examine my heart I am afraid that I fall way to short for YHVH to entrust me with such great responsibility.
It is very difficult to know how to walk out Torah while we are in diaspora. We have no man like Moshe to teach us. We have no Temple or Tabernacle where the Shekeinah Glory resides over the Ark.
What we do have is a Kohen HaGadol who CAN be touched with the feeling of our infirmities who was tempted in all ways like we are, yet without sin! Praise Yah!
“We know that when He appears, we shall be like Him because we shall see Him as He is.”
Shalom David,
You wrote: “We have no man like Moshe to teach us.”
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
We need to seek Him and His righteousness, and it will be given us.
Shalom everyone.
I’ve heard people say that the Star of David is of pagan origin, including the “christian fish”. What do you guys think about this?
Hey guys,
is the Star of David and the “christian fish” of pagan origin?
oops, sorry I posted the same question twice. My bad.
I do not believe the Fish symbol is pagan ,
I believe it is a sign of the House of Joseph!
Ephraim & Manasseh ‘s blessing by Israel , the crossing of the hands on top of the “lads” heads, doesn’t make a cross , It’s makes a fish symbol from the heart of Jacob.
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
The Hebrew word for “let them grow” in the blessings of Ephraim and Manasseh is the word ” dagah דגה” , which in it’s etymology contains the root “dag” meaning wonderfully prolific and also means fish. ( source Brad Scot/ blue letter)
The Fish that are being fished back into the kingdom JER 16:16.
Jer 16:16 ¶ Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them;
When Yeshua says “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men” he is declaring this good news of the kingdom. He was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Jeezrel the planting of the God ( Hosea 1.)
Mat 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
Just like many original motifs used in scripture are pure in their original intent that have been sullied with some pagan perversion , such as “dagon worship” and the “priest of Dagon.” It’s typical for man to pervert and mix the good and the evil. The wheat do grow with the Tares. Yeshua sowed the good seed, Hasatan come right along and sows Tares. So we can’t throw the baby out with the bath water, or separate the Wheat from the tares until the time of the Harvest.
The kingdom of heaven is like a net that gathered the good fish and the bad fish into vessels, and cast the bad fish away.
It also may tie into the sign of the prophet Jonah. Which is the sign , THE ENSIGN to the NATIONS.
Clearvoice,
Thanks for the break-down of those words (pictures)!
Natzri,
Believers in Yah have never been commanded to place any form of symbol to distinguish who we are. Our walk is to distinguish who we are. I even venture to say that the cross as a symbol, doesn’t really belong. But I wold never condemn one for wearing sybols. Tzitziot is one outward mark that believers do in fact have. For some reason most have a desire to be branded by a certain symbol. The sign for me will be His shabbat. I choose to leave all the other “brandings” alone. who cares if the origin is pagan.
Menorahguy, good points. And clearvoice, very thought provoking.
However brothers and sisters, what are your views on Tefillin, and Mezuzot? I’m just curious to see you guys’ point of view. I like to balance all opinions but even better, to find Truth with Scripture. Thanks you guys.
-Natzri87
Words are symbols for sounds that represent ideas. So in that regard they are used to convey a higher meaning. The words themselves don’t receive any worship , they are just a symbolic transfer of thought.
Each tribe had an emblem or banner , which seems to be a part of Hebrew culture. The blessings of Jacob on the twelve tribes carried a lot of imagery concerning their destiny in the latter days. The fact is symbols like words are very powerful communication tools.
Why did Moses raise a standard with a brazen snake? The son of man , said he would be raised up from the earth in a like manner.
http://www.archaeology.org.il/newsticker.asp?id=24
In this 3rd Century Church there is a mosaic on the floor and two fish are displayed.
From my earlier post , I have reason to believe the 2 fish are Ephraim and Manasseh . Perhaps the two fish , five loves in the twelve baskets have some symbolic meaning as well. While that is speculative , there is certainly a theme that the word is conveying regarding fishers of men and the cast off house of Joseph which of course includes Joseph’s sons.
http://www.jesuswalk.com/christian-symbols/chi-rho.htm
I was looking at this early Christian Symbol of the Chi Rio in the wheel of wheat is supposed to represent the first two letters of Christ. I can’t help but see the Paleo Hebrew , Aleph Tov as well. At the top of the Rio is a left facing sideways U . If it was a V in the same position and extended a little over the line it would be a Paleo Hebrew Aleph. Of course the Tov is a sideways X and needs no modification.
Seems that the creator of this symbol knew how to hint at both Christ and Aleph Tov in Hebrew at the same time. What do you think?
The Greek Alpha is on the right as well , the lower case Omega on the left.