Rapture doctrine…where are the misrepresentations and misunderstandings?
Right out of the gate I want to say…I BELEIVE IN A RAPTURE though it would be better stated as the resurrection of the dead. “Rapture” immediately conjures up fanciful dreams of escapism from hardship. A concept TOTALLY foreign to the early ekklesia or assembly. I thought it would be fitting if we all tried to follow a similar format so that new readers of the blog will be able to follow. Perhaps some of our brethren\sistren in the delusion.
Scripture quotation first.
Followed by personal commentary.
That way it will be easy to reference the verses and then we can discuss misunderstandings or misrepresntations. I’ll start. Just one of several. I have found that the passage itself usually dismantles the error and “yellow brick road” through the scriptures isn’t even necessary. PLEASE JUST DO ONE OR TWO AT A TIME. Give others a chance to particpate.
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
“For God did not destine us for wrath but for gaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that whether we are alert or asleep we will come to life together with him. ”
This is always taken out of context when what is being referenced are two eternal states. That is, salvation vs. wrath or separation from God at the resurrection of the dead. Oddly enough this takes place in Revelation 11 at the seventh trumpet. That is when the righteous dead & living are judged and the “wrath of The Lamb” kicks off as the wicked are destroyed.
Again, if we could post the scripture at the top of the comments it will be easier for people to follow. Please try to hog all the verses, we could all quote a hundred inconsistencies…of that I am certain.
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Comments
Shevet,
No one here is denying all these verses you quote about love.
What I am saying to you is, you have an incorrect concept of what love is. It is not always flowers and kisses and hugs and chocolates. Sometimes it is spankings, groundings, saying no, telling the truth when the truth hurts, revealing error, etc. Eloheim so loved the Northern Kingdom of Israel that he exiled them among the nations, took away their identy, declared that they would no longer be given mercy, but when it is all over 2700 years later He would regather them, bless them, show them mercy and declare that they are His people.
He so loved Yhudah that He exiled them to Babylon, thousands died by the sword, hungered, thirst, lost their homes, their fields, their children, their wives, their husbands. Their elderly died in misery, but that was the love of Eloheim bringing Yhudah back to their senses, then in Ezra and Nehemiah we see the love of Eloheim once again establishing them as His people.
For Eloheim so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whosoever believed in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. Now if you were Yeshua at that time, the suffering that He was experiencing probably didn’t feel a lot like love. So much so that He prayed, Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. and so much so that He cried out from the Etz, “My Eloheim, My Eloheim, Why have you forsaken Me?”
Love is not always kisses and roses Shevet. If you can’t see that you are not a very good parent and you certainly are not in obedience to Torah.
Now if you want to worship John Lennon, that is your privledge, however, keep it off this blog!
If you want to worship and serve YHVH, listen more and talk less. You are on the wrong track. In love, I must reject you as a brother as long as you persist in this error, but I will still love you by telling you the truth, even if it hurts. My heart goes out to your wife and children who are being led into error because you want to worship John Lennon. If I had the power, I would take them from you until you got your mind and nefesh in order. They are in spiritual danger from your teaching.
I do not worship John Lennon.
I worship YWHW who is Love.
I teach my children to Love one another as Yahshua instructed his followers.
I do not spank or harm my children. I show them when they are doing wrong. Over and over again.
It is true, YWHW does all the things you say.
But Yahshua has instructed me to Love, to put away my sword.
So I will Love in this WAY. Without violence. Without harm.
In a gentle way. If I need to lay down my life to resist evil and violence I will.
I worship One God. YHWH The “I am that I am”
Shevert, Yeshua told PETER to put his sword back because his sword AT THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME was in the way of Messiah laying His life down. Yeshua wasn’t telling YOU to never have a sword. In fact Yeshua previously told them to sell their cloaks and buy one. If he was advocating that bearing an “arm” is not needed, that would have been a bit of a cruel joke. Your Indian heritage also has to include wariors, of which had defended their wives, children and elderly from the murderous hands of the less docile peoples. If it weren’t for “war” this country would still be a part of Britain, and who knows if the crimes against the Indian people would have been much worse.
Shevet,
Once again, on this post, as well as the other post.
What is love? What does it look like? What does it feel like? How is it practiced? Is it a noun or a verb? Give me something to go on here so I can understand you. I am not trying to be offensive. I am trying to get you to wake up to the fact that the Scriptures are made up of a whole lot more than the one word “love.”
Love does not do away with all the other prophecies, commandments, and instructions in righteousness. That is only one part of the Word of Eloheim.
He also commanded “don’t allow Amelek to live.” Is that love? If so, who is being loved when we kill Amelek”
I say it is love. It is love for YHVH because it is obedience to His commandment. It is love to Israel because it is ridding the world of one who wants to kill and destroy Israel and everything she stands for. But, it probably doesn’t seem very loving to Amelek.
Maybe the blog should post a new question. What is Love….
1 Corinthians 13
Love
If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
OK Shevet,
I will post the question. It is a good one.
Shevet, you said
“I believe that the Book of Revelation is metaphor (hyperbole) as was the Book of Enoch and the Sons of Light fighting against the Sons of Darkness.”
But what about all the other prophecies that came before Revelation, upon which so much of Revelation is based, found all over the Tanakh? Do you spiritualize those as well?
monorahguy.
I have read that 99% of my family was exterminated by the British smallpox.
It is a miracle that there exist any Ojibwe. It is a miracle that I am alive. It is a miracle that you are alive. We are all connected through this miracle of Life.
Do I hate the British ?
No they are my brother. I Love them.
Yeshua has to get us off the earth and behind him before He begins speaking with the “sword” of His mouth…the Torah. This will protect us as the WORDS He will be speaking will be slaughtering the enemy.
Look at Psalms 29 – describing the voice of Yah…
Ps 29:1 A Psalm of David. Ascribe unto the LORD, O ye sons of might, ascribe unto the LORD glory and strength.
Ps 29:2 Ascribe unto the LORD the glory due unto His name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.
Ps 29:3 The voice of the LORD is upon the waters; the God of glory thundereth, even the LORD upon many waters.
Ps 29:4 The voice of the LORD is powerful; the voice of the LORD is full of majesty.
Ps 29:5 The voice of the LORD breaketh the cedars; yea, the LORD breaketh in pieces the cedars of Lebanon.
Ps 29:6 He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young wild-ox.
Ps 29:7 The voice of the LORD heweth out flames of fire.
Ps 29:8 The voice of the LORD shaketh the wilderness; the LORD shaketh the wilderness of Kadesh.
Ps 29:9 The voice of the LORD maketh the hinds to calve, and strippeth the forests bare; and in His temple all say: ‘Glory.’
Ps 29:10 The LORD sat enthroned at the flood; yea, the LORD sitteth as King for ever.
Ps 29:11 The LORD will give strength unto His people; the LORD will bless his people with peace.
To add some clarity to this and relate it in terms we can grasp…
Cedars in Lebanon are HUGE trees…much like the redwoods in Cali…
The things skipping in the next verse are MOUNTAINS…
Makes deer pop their babies out right there…Think on what happened at Mt Sinai….
In the NASB, it says ALL things in the Temple – people and inanimate objects say “GLORY”
Makes this verse in Luke a bit clearer….
Luke 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
Luke 19:40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
Something to ponder….
What is Religious Love…
Love is dividing the Body of Messiah over man made doctrines.
Love is rejecting the word of God for Unity and getting along.
Love is not obeying the commandments and teaching men to do so.
Love is gossiping and back biting against the heretics that do not exercise will worship.
Love is exalting a mans person above the exegesis of scripture and sound doctrine.
Love is being conquered by the Nicolatian hierarchy of institutionalized religion.
Love is covering the sins of your pastor while not protecting those he has spoken ill of unjustly.
Love is believing the umbrella of religion is going to prevent the mountainous rock of Messiah from crushing you.
Love is cherry picking the word of God to suit your doctrinal beliefs.
Love is being a part of a clique that is exclusive and cast out the poor, the maimed and the blind, the orphans and widows.
Love breaks the bruised and extinguishes the smoking flax.
Love is prosperity and self gratification, boastful and proud.
Love is Envy, love is Jealous.
Love is puffed up and proud.
Love demands that it be acknowledged and respected.
Love is proud of it’s heritage.
Love is a glowing face, a shinning countenance and smiling eyes as we practice all our so called righteousness.
Love is paying your tithes to people who practice love like this.
So remember these things when someone drenched in a self righteous religious love says, ” Jesus loves you.”
Wow brother…that was spot on.
Clearvoice,
Could you please transfer that comment to the post I opened on love. It would fit nicely there.
I have been coming to this site for about one year, trying to educate myself. I have been reading the blog since it started.
I am “in the delusion” as it is called here. I was wondering if someone would open a thread for folks like me and explain (in plain English) what it is you believe. I believe Jesus is the Messiah, fully God, and He is my salvation. According to your doctrines, am I grafted in or not?
Please realize that as an outsider, watching quietly, I have seen many of the things mentioned in the above “Religious Love” post expressed by regulars on this blog.
Classic1,
Welcome first of all. I am not sure what delusion you are referring to…please clarify. That would help us understand what you might be wondering.
It is good to have you here. Please feel free to share your views.
I have an announcement <—-not sure if that is spelled correctly
Classic1 has expressed a desire to have a post discussing grafting in. Would someone please start one. I have 500 DVD’s to stuff.
Also,
Moderators: please be mindful of onlookers who may not have an idea what is being discussed, having no knowledge of Hebrew and such. Let us not lose site of the weightier matter.
Onlookers: remember that when looking at things from a distance (not knowing the parties envolved in the dialogue and how they relate to one another) that it is easy to formulate a one sided opinion based on bias in upbringing and indoctrinaiton.
i.e.
Someone raised in Christendom will likely be inclined to lean toward “pro Christianity rhetoric” while someone raised in torah, sabbath & festivals will be inclined toward the opposite.
Thank you for your welcome. I am grateful to you for opening my eyes to another view of the times in which we live. I found your site while investigating endtimes theology. Many of my long held beliefs have changed dramatically over the last year.
Thank you for the good advice to onlookers, I will take it.
By “in the delusion” I believe you mean those of us who worship in Sunday am, “Christian” denominations. My church does not observe Saturday as the Sabbath, the festivals, and believes that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and trusting in that alone is the road to salvation. Basically, I am the typical “American Christian”. I hope I am not deluded. That would make me very sad.
I doubt that I will post much or often, it is very intimidating. Thank you.
I meet regularly with “sunday folks” and am fully persuaded that many of them love Abba. I am also certain that Sunday is never, has never, and will never be a set apart day to convene according to scripture. It is not wrong to convene on Sunday, Monday, Friday, etc…though they will never be the sabbath.
The issue really is about “chose this day whom you will serve” and I have to tell you that when MOST <— (see the adjective) people hear that the sabbath is the fourth commandment for the household of faith they quickly turn back to momma’s house as opposed to listening to Abba. I can’t help but to think that they beieve less will be required of them there, at that other house.
Certainly it is “a delusion” that Sunday is a\the day for believers to gather and the preacher will be quick to tell you that, though he simply repeats what he was handed for no man has ever explored the facts and determined that Sunday was a set apart day…for it is not.
I must tell you Classic1 that I know many believers that are Sunday people…but they know better. It is an obedience issue. You should post and if I see someone being mean (except Chris) I will cross over to your side and help you out of the ditch. I am fully confident that when things fall apart in this world what you now perceive as “intimidating” or even harsh will be brought to remembrance and perhaps then you will know it was done in love all along though it sounds like a shotgun blast presently.
Classic1
Welcome here brother. I opened a post on “grafted in” per your request. I pray we can help you to understand whether you accept what we believe or not.
You said in a comment above, “I have seen many of the things mentioned in the above “Religious love” post expressed by regulars on this blog.”
I am sure much of what you mean by that comes from me. Chris and I joust a lot and often we forget that we are in a public forum. Please forgive me for my part of that. Remember brother, we are flesh. Chris and I disagree on dogma and theological issues but we do love each other. We would be there for one another in any time of need. We fight like siblings but we also love like siblings. I look forward to the day when I can take him up on his offer to visit him and dine with him.
The purpose of this blog is to share our thoughts and ideas with one another to exalt YHVH/Yeshua and to edify one another. I hope you will NOT be intimidated but will join us in praise and love for our Redeemer.
Classic1,
I want to welcome you too, I am not a moderator for the blog but have been enjoying learning and the fellowship.
Duncan
Thanks to everyone for the warm welcomes! BTW…I’m a gal!!! LOL
Classic1,
I am glad you spoke up and introduced yourself! Welcome! I am a voice crying in the wilderness on this blog and I share many of your views. I am one of the few Sunday worshippers on this blog and I serve as a pastor in a Baptist Church. I enjoy the insights on this blog although I disagree with a hearty majority of the opinions expressed here. I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that the NT contains the instructions for modern believers to live according to God’s will under the new covenant of grace.
Sister, don’t be scared to comment, the folks here will be kind to you, unless you come to my aide too vigorously, and then look out! LOL!
HEY EVERYONE,
Please pray for my family, we are under intense spiritual attack and we need God’s protection. Please pray for protection over my home! PLEASE!
Classic1,
Welcome sister!
Hi Larry! How you doing bro?
hey Chris ol’ buddy, ol’ pal, right now I am starving and craving a juicy ginormous cheeseburger, but I think I’ll settle with just going to bed…
Yeah I hear ya, I am studying greek, man I am so tired! Burger sounds good though!
What sort of spiritual attack Chris?
Menorah,
I cant get specific in a public forum like this. But thank you for asking, I have grown to truly respect you and consider you a friend, even though we rarely agree.
I left my cell phone earlier for Scot. Its too late to call me now, but I would be willing to share but only via phone, some things dont belong on the world wide web.
Classic1,
That is a classic! lol
OK, replace all those brother remarks with sister.
David…it’s sistern…you know…like brethren…
=8^D
Welcome Classic1
Go with the burger.
Chris,
What is going on? BTW, new covenant or covenants? What is going on with the family? Suzanne and I care about you.
Scot
Scot,
I am at seminary. If you want to talk calle me on my cell 928-916-7431, I will have a break in 28 minutes
Chris…you said:
(I wanted to highlight a few things)
“I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that the NT contains the instructions for modern believers to live according to God’s will under the new covenant of grace.”
1. NT is an addtition by man to create a division
2. “contains the instructions for modern believers”
Much of what you call “NT” is not even addressed to “modern believers” rather to the ekklesia in which it was sent (i.e. Romans, Ehpesians, etc.) Whether it makes sense on our religious culture to day is really of no consequence if it did not make sense to the ones it was directed to. Reminder, ALL SCRIPTURE IS PROFITABLE FOR REPROOF & CORRECTION” but the “NT was not “scripture yet” when that was stated…it refers to the Tanakh (OT)
3. I (Scot) believe ALL scripture is without error as it was spoken by YHWH in its ORIGINAL FORM, once men write it down things begin to go down hill. This has been proven BEYOND doubt on this site and thousands of others.
4. There has never been any covenant that was not based on grace…Hebrews and the whole of the canon testify to that fact. Remember Abraham…saved by grace.
Shalomey Homey…I pray that peace fills your home in direct relation to your obedience to YHWH.
We listened to Brad Scott on GLC last night and he shared about being invited to be on the History Channel sometime @ Nov. 25. It is some 12 week series the History channel is doing about end-time things, Brad’s on the 12 th week part. They asked him the language culture things.
We hopefully can begin this topic again and glean more fruit, what do ya say?
Duncan,
“We listened to Brad Scott on GLC last night and he shared about being invited to be on the History Channel”
Ayayay, if I’m not mistaken his eschatology is way off as well as that of many if not most Messianic teachers. Someone correct me please.
Hey everyone,
I just had a thought and please help me out:
The New Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31 says that in that day ALL will KNow YHWH and no one will teach his neighbor anymore. Does this mean that the Re Newed covenant will practically be put in place during the Millenial Kingdom? Since today we are still teaching our neighbors about YHWH?
Or is it a duel prophecy that has two fulfillments…?
-Natzri87
Natzri87,
The proof that you’re under the Renewed Covenant is that His Torah is being written on your heart. He is still doing it, but in the Millennium it will be [completely] fulfilled.
Hi Larry,
I can’t say for sure about that, he told that he was asked primarily things to do with the culture and language. He acknowledged that he is not as studied on prophecy and the end-times.
Hope that helps. List some of the “way off” things so we can get ready to spit. LOL
The History channel also brought in the co-author of Left behind.
Brad said he “literally” ran into the guy, while he was walking and talking with the interviewer on the way out. pretty funny!
Natzri87, In Ephesians 2 we’re shown the grafting into the covenants by the re-newed covenant to become one new man. Is the fulfillment of the new man when the remaining feast are fulfilled and we enter the millenium with torah written on our hearts with no need for another to teach?
Duncan,
“List some of the “way off” things so we can get ready to spit. LOL”
First I have to say that I love Brad, although I don’t agree with everything he teaches. I think Scot knows him better than I do, in person. I personally encountered from many Messianic teachers the false teachings of a European AC, AC from the tribe of Dan, Babylon is America, and many “way off” things. Probably Scot can give you a more detailed list. This is stemmed from the fact that while they have discovered the beauty of the first 5 books, they pretty much forget about the rest, and bury their noses in what they call “Torah” (same sin as Christianity who buries her nose in the epistles), the general tradition in Judaism that it’s the first 5. ‘Torah’ means teachings and instructions and to hit the mark (an archery term). It is completely absurd to think that ONLY the first 5 have that. Let me give you an example, “the testimony of Yeshua is the spirit of prophecy” found in Revelation is also Torah or teachings and instruction, it hits the mark again. Shalom.
Oh, and until those feasts are fulfilled by Yahshua we are obedient growing from faith to faith and glory to glory. Keeping the feast even as Paul said and did.
I just did’nt want to leave the impression that we can’t glory in Yahshua now and not really have fulfillment til then. He has given us the Ruach ha kodesh as down payment to not be burdened by carnality or lawlessness.
My Opinion,
We are now engaged in spiritual warfare. The War Scroll is describing 7 battles. Some is physical and much is spiritual. In the first century the sect of the nazarites, The Way, did battle. Torah was being written on their hearts. Now we live in the end times after many of the battles have been fought. Some won by the children of light and some by the children of darkness.
Torah was ripped away from the true followers of Yeshua from the second century until our present day. There were only a handful of true believers throughout this history. Now we are seeing Torah restored. It has begun once again to be written on the hearts of many who will accept it. This is only the beginning of the fulfillment of the Renewed Covenant.
I have heard nothing from Brad Scot about prophecy that I strongly disagree with. I don’t know where he stands on this “move to Israel” issue. If he has the same opinion that Monte Judah and Eddie Chumney have been teaching then I disagree with that. But I do believe in what they call a “Greater Exodus.” I just differ on the details.
Larry,
BTW had a nice juicy cheeseburger yesterday, cooked in my garage on our weber Q.
I agree with you and I’ve heard Brad say to not bury your nose away from the gospels, letters, Revelation any of it.
I may need to get the audio’s of Scot teaching about, the bible does’nt teach that the anti-christ will be revealed until after the rapture so just ” you never know” when scripture instructs us to “know the will of Abba”
There are many (older people especially) that have been decieved into living like you just can’t know. It worked hand in glove with the re-placement lie.
I may need to find it in print format to hand to people to read. Any suggestions are welcome. My wife and I are wanting to be able to share about these things so that is why we are studying the Word to put our learning into more practice. Some of those strongholds must be centuries old but the light and anointing of Yahshua will destroy the yoke and burdens of darkness.
Larry,
So could I safely say that there are certain stages of prophecy?
1. Prophecies that ARE fulfilled…
2. Prophecies that are BEING fulfilled (even to this day)
3. Prophecies that WILL be fulfilled….
Is this true?
Many have BEEN fulfilled already, but some like the Jeremiah 31:31 are BEING fulfilled, but haven’t completed the fulfillment YET until the Millenial Reign of Yeshua. This really makes more sense to me. Cause The prophets spoke prophecies at random places in Scripture and not all are chronological that I know ot. Thanks for your reply brother.
-Natzri87
Natzri,
Please don’t drift into Greek, abstract, linear, thinking.
YHVH’s Kingdom is Eternal. What was in the beginning will be in the end.
It is cyclical.
We can’t count prophesies as fulfilled no more than we can count that the end of one day brings no more days.
It is YHVH’s call. There is nothing new under the sun.
Duncan,
That burger sure sounded great bro!
Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Natzri87,
The nature of Elohim’s Word is that it’s cyclical, so are prophecies. Some people say they have a dual or multiple fulfillment, but I prefer the word “cyclical”
Example, the return of Yehudah (Jews) to the Land was prophesied, but only the first installment lives in the Land now, the rest, ALL of us will follow when Yeshua returns.
Daniel’s prophecy about the rebuilding and restoring of Israel and Jerusalem happened more than 2k years ago, but is also happening right now. We cannot put Elohim’s Word (and prophecies) in boxes.
Larry,
Yeah, when I wrote that I thought it might be your dinner-time.
I hope we can have some more insights on this topic.
Shalom
Duncan,
My wife and I actually went yesterday on our 8th anniversary to this place called the Counter for the 1st time, where you build your own custom burger. It was insane. Huge selection/options, toppings, sauces even alcohol. The meat was incredibly tender and juicy, angus, they also have turkey, chicken, halibut, etc., the only complaint, the tables and chairs were tiny. Highly recommended!
Larry that sounds to die for!
Chris,
Indeed it was! I can’t wait to go back and try the halibut or the chicken (we ate angus and turkey, it was the best turkey burger ever)
Larry,
First, blessings for your anniversary in the name of Yahshua our King Eternal.
Is it a chain or pop and mom, that does sound good.
Duncan,
Thanks bro, bless you and your dear ones too! It’s a chain, search thecounterburger.
Larry,
You guys are making me hungry for a burger with a thick slice of onion and of course all the other trimmings. I don’t know about the halibut though. Sounds nasty on a burger.
Also, how in the world do you get the alcohol on the burger? lol
David,
Hey, I meant alcohol as a drink, good selection of wine and beer. I had a Stella Artois beer, mmm
The halibut burger I think was the burger of the month, famous, so there are people who like it, I think I would, I love fish!
Is the Last Trumpet that Paul talks about the same as the 7th trumpet spoken of in Revelation? I personally believe so because both authors use the term “Mystery of God” which is of course the Ressurection right?
Natzri87,
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
I think all three of these are the same. They all speak of the returning Messiah and the resurrection.
Shelemiyah,
Thank you for the verses. It was much needed. Why is it that in Revelation, John sees a multitude of Nations serving before YHWH in His temple day and night, when this is happening BEFORE the Last Trumpet is even sounded? Is it because John’s Vision flashes back and forth? Some people say that Rev Ch.1-22 IS in order and we aren’t to twist it to our way of thinking. However, others will say that each vision isn’t necessarily in order but the visions happen at different times. It’s all so confusing. Any more insight would help.
Natzri87,
You wrote: John sees a multitude of Nations serving before YHWH in His temple day and night, when this is happening BEFORE the Last Trumpet is even sounded?
I don’t know if I have an answer, but would you give me the reference to which you are referring?
1 Cor 2:1-5. The Bible and the Bible alone.
Matt 24:21, For then shall be great tribulation.
Matt 24:29, Immediately after the tribulation.
Matt 24:30, Then shall appear the Son of
man in heaven.
Matt 24:31, And he shall send his angels with a
great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
As you can see not taken out of context, or of my own understanding.
Best Wishes,
Ken.
Any comments send to, funnimals@yahoo.com