Why Church History Matters (by Chris)
Below is an excerpt from The History of the Christian Church by Phillip Schaaf which is considered one of the best accounts of church history available today. Please read this and consider the possibility that there were two branches of the church: The Jewish Church and the Gentile Church which both practiced their faith in different ways.
The Jewish Christians, at least in Palestine, conformed as closely as possible to the venerable forms of the cultus of their fathers, which in truth were divinely ordained, and were an expressive type of the Christian worship. So far as we know, they scrupulously observed the Sabbath, the annual Jewish feasts, the hours of daily prayer, and the whole Mosaic ritual, and celebrated, in addition to these, the Christian Sunday, the death and the resurrection of the Lord, and the holy Supper. But this union was gradually weakened by the stubborn opposition of the Jews, and was at last entirely broken by the destruction of the temple, except among the Ebionites and Nazarenes.
In the Gentile-Christian congregations founded by Paul, the worship took from the beginning a more independent form. The essential elements of the Old Testament service were transferred, indeed, but divested of their national legal character, and transformed by the spirit of the gospel. Thus the Jewish Sabbath passed into the Christian Sunday; the typical Passover and Pentecost became feasts of the death and resurrection of Christ, and of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit; the bloody sacrifices gave place to the thankful remembrance and appropriation of the one, all-sufficient, and eternal sacrifice of Christ on the cross, and to the personal offering of prayer, intercession, and entire self-consecration to the service of the Redeemer; on the ruins of the temple made without hands arose the never ceasing worship of the omnipresent God in spirit and in truth.
So early as the close of the apostolic period this more free and spiritual cultus of Christianity had no doubt become well nigh universal; yet many Jewish elements, especially in the Eastern church, remain to this day.
History of the Christian Church by Phillip Schaaf
What do you think?
Posted by: Chris
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Speaking of the Sabbath and the Fulfillment of Christ check this out.
Luke 4:16-21 (NKJV)
16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.
17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him.
21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
This passage that Jesus is quoting in Isaiah is referring to the fulfillment of the Jubilee in the Torah. Jesus fulfills the sabbaths of Jubilee….he sets the captives free!!! Jesus fulfills the sabbaths. Interestingly Jesus uses the word “Fulfill” just as in Matt. 5:17 indicating that He fulfilled the law in Matt 5:17 and He fulfills the Jubiless in Luke 4!!!
to preach fully or perform NOT to bring to naught or make null. When he returns it will also be a Jubilee. How does that fit it being done away with at the cross…it doesn’t.
Actually Scot,
The sabbaths and the feasts were for Israel. Sabbath was a “sign of the covenant” just like circumcison was a sign. In a suzerain covenant the stamp/sign of the covenant is placed in the middle. The sabbath is the fourth commandment in about the Middle of the Suzerain document. Since the sign of circumcison is not required in the New covenant neither is the second sign of the covenant, the sabbath.
I also need to point out that the Orthodox wing of the church also worships on Sunday and always has, they date back to the Apostles and would not have changed to Sunday worship to appease Rome since they were offended by the power grabbing of Roman popes. Eventually this led to the split of the Catholic church East and west.
Scot,
If the jubilee sabbaths have been fulfilled so have the other Sabbath’s. Don’t you see Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and the prophets. He has fulfilled all of it. It al pointed to Him!! And He fulfilled it!
The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, [10]
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
Luk 4:19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.
HE STOPPED IN MID SENTENCE AND DID NOT FINISH READING:
Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him.
Luk 4:21 And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.
HERE IS WHY, the second half is YET FUTURE…ie.
NOT DONE AWAY WITH.
Below is the rest of the segment, which will come to pass in round 2
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
BTW bro Plereo means to fill or to complete. I know you don’t like that definition but it is what it is. The Greek makes it clear Jesus met the requirements of the Law. Sorry bud…..it must be rough
It al pointed to Him!! And He fulfilled it!
IT STILL POINTS TO HIM as the story is still in process! Paul says keep it and so does YHWH
Scot,
I have no problem with that I mean we both know He is returning. But the first part was fulfilled and a direct reference to the Year (sabbath) of jubilee. He fulfilled the Sabbath of Jubilee!! Amen!
Fill up CHRIS as in overflowing…
Nah Paul actually doesnt say that. If he did we wouldn’t be having this convo. You say he said it, but he did not!
Fill up as in My cup is full (the space has been filled therefore fulfilled)
Why don’t you keep the feasts like Paul and YHWH said to do and how do you fulfill the laws of America, YOU OBEY THEM. What you don’t do is violate the law because you get a new sheriff who obeyed the law.
Again, you missed it. When Messiah returns it will be a Jubilee year. So if they are done away with at the cross why will there be one when he returns?
Scot,
First of all I am right with God period. I have never been closer to God than I am right now. This discussion has forced me to study and has confirmed a great deal of what I already believed and helped me better understand some other areas that I had neglected. I thank you for that, I have been sharpened.
I am never going to keep the sabbath, the feasts or the Torah. I am under New Testament Law….a New Covenant. And yes there is a New (although preexistent) sheriff in town, and that is king Jesus who ushered in a New Covenant not a “renewed covenant” which is just more law.
Prophecy often has dual fulfillment as you know! Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Year of Jubilee, the sabbaths, and the feast (and all of Torah) and when He returns we will have the final consumation and fulfilment of all prophecy. God is good! I am blessed.
By the way bro getting back to church history, the ancient traditions of the church were handed down from the Apostles themselves. Tradition can be a very good thing. Look what Paul wrote,
2 Thessalonians 2:15 (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Chris,
You will obey torah during the milllenium if you like rain on your lands and you will obey sabbath and you will have 1260 days to get on board as the two witnesses herald a similar message. Having said that call me ASAP.
the word is transmission or precept
I am going to bed. Maybe we can talk tomorrow but I have Bible Study tomorrow evening.
And it is transmission…..thats what Christian tradition is a faithful transmission of the essentials of our faith. Tradition is not bad unless it is corrupted. And within church history we have a glorious wealth of uncorrupted traditon (or transmission) In the church Fathers until about 300 AD!
Judaism teachest that they too have an “unbroken” transmission from the oral law from the ancient scribes to the modern rabbis of today. Have you ever played the telphone game? It only takes a couple of pass for the “tradition” to become corrupt.
Menorah,
Sorry but the church was not apostate within 250 years. Silliness! Judaism departed from its roots over the course of 2,000 years. If you held Judaism to the same standard you are holding Christianity to there would be Torah, no writings, no Psalms, no prophets. You guys are grasping at straws. Judaism became corrupt long after the real tradition was handed down and preserved. Under your paradigm we ought to throw out everything except for the Pentateuch. The “telephone game” analogy reveals such ignorance of the ancient oral cultures of ancient palestine and Jesus’ day Himself I am tempted not to reply.
How was the story of Jesus preserved before the NT scriptures existed? Through oral transmission of the traditions. You are on a VERY slippery slope. Try learning about History and not basing every thing you believe upon your incredibly faulty translation of scripture. If you studied history my friend you’ realize that what you just said was not well thought out.
We agree Judaism became corrupt after a long period of time. And the Roman church also became corrupt, but in both cases it took much longer than 250 years. Geez!
Judaism has always been corrupt from the first tradition that was added or subtracted to\from torah as has christianity
Chris,
Christianity has NOTHING to do with the church…the man in Africa (sheep not of this fold) who has never heard of Christianity but returns to the father like a child is part of “the church” which rules our Christianity as being the church. Christianity has some of “the church” in it as does Islam, Judaism and there are people out of all of them…
Scot,
Total baloney! The church is the called out of God who assembles in His name. You are attempting to redfine what the body of Christ is. Scripturally and historically speaking this definition of the church is toally foregin. Paul wrote letters to real churches that existed in his day and He called them the hagios, the ekklesia, and the body of Christ. He designated THEM as the church. Your attempts to redefine what the church is are harmful to the body of Christ. This is false teaching that is not based on any scripture (maybe esoterically speaking but esoteric renderings are not sound modes of interpretation).
I agree that not everyone in a pew is the church, but the church is the people who assemble in His name…..period.
Wrong…that is your definition and NOT the scriptural definition. There is and forever will be only one body of redeemed…and that has nothing to do with the religion of Christianity. The church was also at sinai in the wilderness receiving the betrothal document BEFORE she violated it and so we some folks who were not. Brother, the church is NOT something we do, we go to, we participate in…THAT IS RELIGION. Most of the people who will be inthe kingdom have followed the still small voice and WILL NOT have been in a christian building. If everybody in the pew wont be there, why do you keep calling her the church when by definition she cannot be? That is self deluding and it also deceives others into thinking it is “the church”…serious sin.
Weirdbeard,
Silliness. The church is a local body and universal body of redeemed people who assemble together. Thats why there are seven letters written to seven churches. Your view negates the first three chapters of Revelation and renders it as total nonsense
Scot,
I am reading some church history right now and brother you are missing out. Have you ever read church history? You know most people just think that the church made decisions wily nilly so it could enforce its “rule” over the laity. Which I know you believe from your teaching about who the Nicolaitans are in the book of Revelation. I know there is some truth to that by the way. BUT….the early church (100-800 AD) had to create doctrinal statements and formulate doctrine to fight heresey in the early church. For instance the doctrine of the Trinity was created to fight Arianism. And later the deity of Christ was protected in a statement to protect against the heresy of Nestorius.
I guess my question is this. Why do you despise those who devoted their lives to protect purity of doctrine? I dont get it. I never will. I am aware that the Western church became totally apostate by the 1000 AD marker but that doesn’t change the fact that there is plenty of church history that gives us a good perspective on What the Lords church was and should be. Just Something to consider.
Israel took less than 40 days to fall away. What’s the differnce between Israel an the “church fathers. Also, The Torah was only 1,500 years old when Messiah came, and Judah was scattered twice in that time frame… roughly.
Yep, pretty much ALL proof is against your theology and hermeneutics Chris, sorry bro.
Mal 4:4 Remember ye THE TORAH of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the FATHERS to the children, and the heart of the children to their FATHERS, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Yohanan (John “the baptist”) was Eliyahu (Elijah) partially fulfilling the passage. This is just before Yeshua came (and before He comes the 2nd time), REMEMBER TORAH! Yohanan prepared the way, the hearts of the people for Yeshua. They were repenting (t’shuvah=returning to God’s ways=Torah) and mikvad (baptized) in the Jordan river. There was NO “NT” and NO “church fathers” then! So, when you repent Chris, you have to do the same, and then faith in Yeshua comes and the spirit writes the Torah on your heart, in this order. The Fathers or Ancestors in verse 6 are a reference to the Patriarchs and their faith and their obedience. These are the Fathers, NOT the “church fathers”. The “church fathers” should’ve returned to these Fathers, but obviously didn’t.
Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days [END DAYS] it shall come to pass, that ten men [10 scattered tribes mainly within Christianity] shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a JEW [NOT Christian, Gentile, "church fathers"!!], saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
Menorah,
According to your reasoning the church could have been apostate before the Holy SPirit even arrived. Don’t you see how silly that is? In addition the New testament Cannon wasn’t even completed until 96 AD when John wrote the Revelation on Patmos. Beyond that the churches did not all have the scriptural cannon we have today until 100 AD, and maybe a little later. So are you really suggesting the church was apostate before the Bible was even finished? Before the churches had the entire scriptural cannon? If you say yes then you cant trust anything including the words of Christ in the NT. If the church was apostate in the first century then how can you know that you have the actual words of Jesus?
This view of the church and scriptures leads to a shipwreck of the faith.
In additon three of the church fathers resources I have quoted much earlier in the post were written in the first century AD. Menorah, the early church fathers give us a wonderful glimpse into history and if you cant trust them you cant even trust the Words of the Savior, because the people who gave us (and preserved the scriptures) are the same ones who you are rejecting. Don’t you see the fatal flaw in your argument?
You really believe that you have discovered “the truth” 2,000 years after the church started and that you have a better handle on the truth than those who lived with the apostles and were taught by them? Menorah this is truly silly. You are way to smart to buy this load baloney! Seriously, you are a smart guy. Stop buying into the HRM lies!
Larry,
The passage in Malachai doesnt say that Elijah was coming to restore the Law of Moses, just so you know. There are two independent statements in the passage.
1.) A call to remember the Law of Moses, this is given to Jews under the Old Covenant.
2.) The second passage is about Elijah turning the hearts of the fathers/ children to each other. This has nothing to do with the statement above it.
By the way, John came in the “Spirit of Elijah” but he was not actually Elijah. I know this is a hard thing to figure out but Elijah will come again as one of the two witnesses. Count on it.
The preaching of John the Baptist does not prove your point at all. He preaches repentance and baptism. Repentance is the Greek work Metaneo, which means to change your mind. In other words the people were to recognize their sin and accept the teaching of the messiah. This does not mean a re-establishment of the law.
Larry,
These people were super religious and kept the law meticulously. Torah observance is not the same as being right with God. These people did all the external stuff but their hearts were far from God. Notice that in the book of Revelation Jesus says “repent …you have lost your first love” they hadn’t transgressed Torah, they had actually been obedient to the Law of Christ and were totally orthodox yet they lacked love and passion for the Savior. You have to stop reading HRM teaching into every verse. Take the verses by at face value, and use good hermeneutics. The HRM hermeneutics I have seen so far are treacherous. Sorry bro but this text does not support Torah keeping in the New Covenant.
One last thought. Many NT theologians believe that John the Baptist is the last of the OT prophets. Even if your view was correct (and I am not saying it is) his death took place before Messiah died and before the New Covenant was formed.
Whoa, there you go with replacement/dispensational/evolutionary theology, this is just for the Jews… the CONTEXT bro is just the days before the Day of the LORD. This is about ALL Israel into which we are grafted. Remember TORAH! I didn’t say Yohanan was restoring the Law, the Law was already there, but preaching repentance or returning to the Law, remember there was NO “NT”, NO “church fathers” then. You said “In other words the people were to recognize their sin”, exactly, which is transgression of Torah. Elijah was known as Eliyahu HaTishbi which means the returning, return to what, to God’s ways, Torah. They were admitting their transgression of Torah and were returning to it. Then Messiah came. Same principle today bro. In order to understand the expression about fathers and children we have to look at what Yohanan did, because it is about him and his work and about what is happening right now before the 2nd coming of Yeshua. Yohanan’s work had nothing to do with turning the hearts of children/fathers to each other like you put it, but admitting transgression of Torah and returning to the ancient ways of the Patriarchs. Today this movement is around the globe, the “children”/believers returning to the ancient ways of the Fathers/Ancestors/Patriarchs, to the Hebraic understanding, even Hebrew language (Zephaniah I will return to them a pure language).
Chris,
Seriously brother, you have to stop equating Judaism with obeying Torah. Judaism like Christianity had a litany of traditions of their “church fathers” or Rabbis. They were guilty of transgressing Torah and replacing it with their traditions, pretty much what you are doing Chris. Repentance is the Hebrew word t’shuvah, and means return. Revelation (which was written by another Hebrew prophet, hence HR) says, those who have the testimony of Yeshua (faith) AND OBEY the commandments of God, hmm, what were those back then, yeah, Torah. My previous posts and the Malachi passage clearly show that before Messiah comes, a return to the Torah and the ancient ways of the true Fathers must happen, Eliyahu HaTishbi, Elijah the Returning, return to what, remember, NO “NT” when this was written. I do not believe that the 2 witnesses are Elijah and Moses.
off to bed, night bro
Larry,
I have to be real honest. The “hebraic understanding” I have discovered here is totally bogus. There is a lack of scholarship or understading of the original languages. People on here frequently attempt to change the meaning of words to accomodate their theological perspective. And there is a serious lack of theological common sense. I like the people here, but the views are totally out in left field.I am not even going to respond to the above, not because I cant but because I feel it is a waste of time. I dont think you are a waste of time but I have come to the place where I have realized that whatever I say someone is going to either have a lame rebuttal or change the meaning of a greek or hebrew word.
I will give you an example. In Jer. 31 the word for New means New and not renew. I have done an extensive study on this and you guys are either ignorant of hebrew or totally duped. There is a specific word for “renew” in Hebrew and a word for New. The Word in Jer 31 is NEW not renew. In addition The Septuagint equivalent for the Word for New in hebrew is translated with Kainos in Greek which means “new”.
You guys have your own theology, your own hermeneutic, and your own denominational disticntives. None of these are necessarily scriptural. The letters of Paul are twisted. Greek is called a “gutter langauge” and everything Hebrew is exalted. Larry this is ridiculous. You ignore that There is a new Covenant and an old covenant, which in essence means you discount the blood of Christ.
Let me say one more thing. Covenants are sealed with blood. When a New Covenant is made it is sealed with blood. The Mosaic Covenant is sealed with the blood of the passover lamb, the New covenant is sealed with the blood of Jesus. The blood seals a new covenant, it doesnt “renew” an old covenant. The longer I am here the more concerned I am about what you all believe.
Chris,
We’ve already established what “chadash” means,
H2319
חדש×
châdâsh
khaw-dawsh’
From H2318; new: – fresh, new thing.
comes from:
H2318
חדש×
châdash
khaw-dash’
A primitive root; to be new; causatively to rebuild: – renew, repair.
So, God will rebuild, repair the old covenant, how, by making a renewed, refreshed covenant, believe what you want brother.
same root as in:
H2320
חדש×
chôdesh
kho’-desh
From H2318; the new moon; by implication a month: – month (-ly), new moon
which is the same moon, but renewed, refreshed.
Uh Larry,
I just did a study on the hebrew word for repent……and uh……it doesnt mean return. You guys are changing the meaning of a litany of words to prove your point. Do you know how wrong that it? I will never embrace hebrew roots, it is based upon poor scholarship and outright halftruths. Wake up! I am not making this up! Do the research with a critical eye!
Chris,
I said repent is t’shuvah and means returning, Eze 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; REPENT [shub, shubah], and turn [shub/shubah] yourselves from your idols; and turn away [shub/shubah] your faces from all your abominations… and in many other instances, unlike the word to feel sorry which is nacham, Exo 13:17… Lest peradventure the people REPENT [nacham, feel sorry] when they see war, and they RETURN [shub, shubah] to Egypt.
The word nacham, feel sorry in English was translated repent, when the meaning of repent in Hebrew is much more than feeling sorry, it is an action, to return, shubah.
Check the word repent in the first passage:
H7725
ש×וּב
shûb
shoob
A primitive root; to turn back (hence, away), etc.
and this one who comes from it:
H7729
ש×וּבה
shûbâh [or shuvah]
shoo-baw’
From H7725; a return: – returning.
Larry,
Do you know how to read a lexicon? I am serious. The lexical info above proves my point.
Chris,
You said that repent doesn’t mean return, I proved you wrong. You choose the Greek, because it is mental, no action, typical to Christianity, you prefer that, while the Hebrew is always action. I’ve learned about the concept of repent/return/t’shuvah from serious Hebrew scholars, by studying the entire Scriptures, not by listing meanings and word counts and reading a lexicon. Sorry bro, but that’s not gonna help and doesn’t prove your point.
Revelations gives clear evidence that 5 out of the seven ‘churches’ was in fact straying already.
John the immerser preached BEFORE THE MESSIAH did in the flesh, so how can you say that the “repentace” he was preaching was “accept the teachings of Messiah”? John’s message would have been inline with the previous prophets; “Walk in my ways, turn your hearts from you wicked ways, and keep my commandments”.
You refuse to acknowedge that the Torah is the Word of Messiah as well as the red colored words
Remember, John Preached repent BEFORE the Red letter Words. There is a chronology to the gospels you know.
You are correct…simple.
It is simple.
God’s grace is Him loving us.
Our obedience is us loving Him back.
That is the relationship.
We do not get to choose how we want to love HIm. He told us how.
We love Him because He first loved us.
There are some who want to focus on God loving us (grace) and ignore or dillute our love for Him (obedience)
Loving God is our purpose, thus keeping the commandments is our purpose.
http://torahresource.com/EnglishArticles/2000Years.pdf
By the way, Chris, here are some “loving” comments made by one of those “great”, revered churchmen: “As for me, I hate the synagogue…I hate the Jews for the same reason.” –John Chrysostom (from http://www.yashanet.com/library/fathers.htm)
You can follow your traditions and those who put them forth (Matthew 15:9 “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men”) or you can follow HIM. The choice is yours.
I read through the opening statement about Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians that Chris made quoting from “The History of the Christian Church” by Phillip Schaaf. Fact is there was no such thing as Christians in the first / second century or what we today call Christianity until around the third or fourth century.
I probably won’t be jumping in on this conversation again, it’s a waste of time. To make the statements that Chris made is proof that he has done zero studing about Church history, the history of Christianity, or the Truth and if he had any love for the Truth he wouldn’t be wasting Scot Dryer’s time, he would be studing and searching out the Truth for himself rather than being a mouthpiece for the status quo.
Chris 14. Jul, 2009 at 5:57 pm #
I will read the article.
First regardless of how it is spun the passage in Deuteronomy destroys the entire thought that Torah was given and practiced before Sinai.
Again this statement shows Chris’ lack of study in the Word of God!!!
Genesis 4:4-5 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Do you think God forgot to tell (Instruct) Cain what was an acceptable offering? (God’s instructions = Torah) I didn’t see any response from Cain stating “Sorry, I didn’t know”.
Genesis 6:9 9 ¶ These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. (Can two walk together unless they agree?) If you are walking outside of Torah, take it to the bank, God is not walking with you or you with Him.
John 14:10 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:23 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words (Torah): and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Genesis 6:5-7 5 ¶ And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Romans 4:15 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
If there was no law (Torah) why did God destroy the whole earth except Noah and his family?
This wasn’t the first time God destroyed the whole earth.
2 Peter 3:5-6 that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: Genesis 1:2 2 And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. (First time God destroyed the earth)
2 Peter 2:5 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Noah was a preacher of righteousness (Torah).
Genesis 26:4-5 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Torah)
I didn’t even break a sweat to find these verses that clearly show there was Torah (Instructions) from God before Mount Sinai.
Allen,
These verses prove nothing. Is that really your argument? You really cant do better than that? You my friend need to study more.
Chris,
Yahweh is patiently waiting for you to cast aside your arrogance and pride, so that He can open your eyes.
Stephen God is patiently waiting for you to repent of your false doctrines and embrace the historic Christian faith given by Yahweh
Matthew 15:7 Hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you when he said: 8 This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. 9 They worship Me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commands of men.” 10 “Summoning the crowd, He told them, “Listen and understand: 11 It’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
Scot
We have to come to the knowledge of the truth, some how. We are in a very critical time and there has got to be a strong desire to know truth as well as to receive truth. The church was originally made up of Jew (first) and then Gentiles. We are grafted in and are to receive the Blessings but are also obligated to the same holiness and righteousness as our Forefathers (Abraham, Issaic, Jacob), the Jews. For me, you cannot have one without the other. We sometimes want the blessings without the obligations. God gave Moses 613 laws, not ten. Sometimes I feel that we need to go back as close to the original as possible, as much is lost in the translations, includinjg the King James bible. The word says that “I and the father are one” (Speaking of Jesus Chirst). God forbid that we look at Jesus as someone who is emnity with God, who came to destroy what God established. Jesus said I only do what I see the Father do. He is not seperate from God but one with him, who loves the father.
Love the article, I jus wanna know.. Why call “Yeshua” jesus christ??… I dont like that one bit.. churches today call lucifer the devil when cleary “Yeshua” refers to himself as “A” Lucifer not “The Lucifer” meaning morning star, that he an other morning stars were present when allah created the earth… can u make an article about that.. thanks! .. peace.
This is a definition of the word allah Dasize shared: dasize 03. Oct, 2010 at 10:48 am # Edit
Duncan,
There are different opinions on this subject. A Muslim will tell you that Allah is simply the Arabic translation for God, but this is incorrect. Allah is a specific deity. Allah is the supreme God of the Kabba in Mecca which is the black stone. Muhammad cleansed the Kabba by smashing all the other 360 idols in the Kabba, but he kept the black stone which was the supreme idol. Muhammad’s father was named Abduallah (Slave of Allah).
That’s why when you become a Muslim you have to recite the shahada which states “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messengerâ€. Notice it doesn’t say there is no God but God or there is no Allah but Allah. The word actually used there for God is ilâha and not Allah. So it sates there is no ilâha, but Allah. Ilaha is closer to the Arabic word for God than Allah. Allah is one of the many pagan pre Islamic gods of the Kabba. Allah was the supreme deity of the Kabba, but not the only deity,
The reason both Jewish and Christian Arabs use the word Allah for God is due to the fact of Islam conquering the middle east and Arabicizing it.